I've been reading your blog since I planned my friend's wedding two years ago, now I'm finally engaged.
My boyfriend proposed last month while on vacation. I want to start planning the wedding. He said doesn't want to have a wedding because it is outrageous to spend so much money on one day. I want to set a date (even if it's 2 yrs from now) but he says we have to save. What are we saving for if we just go to City Hall?
He says I'm rushing. After crying about it, I told him I want to have a wedding, he says okay but still is annoyed anytime I bring it up and says to give him time. If he's not ready, then why did he propose? I'm confused and sad.
Backstory:
My boyfriend and I have been together for 10 yrs. Yes it's a long time but we got together a month before I turned 18 so a good 6 of those years don't count. We don't live together. I was adamant about this since I was young and wanted to learn how to be alone. Did not want to live with someone until we were at least engaged. No kids. We are the longest relationship we know but most of his friends have kids, all of my friends are married with kids. I did not pressure him into wanting to get married (he will agree with this.) We will not get much financial help from family as we both make way more than our parents.
I was completely fine with our long-term relationship but I do not want a long-term engagement. We've discussed this. I am currently I'm in limbo until he says he is ready. I feel like a fraud wearing this ring. Every day someone ask me about a wedding and have to lie that we are taking our time to save but I really don't know why we are taking our time. We took the "next step" but nothing has changed.
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Ladyfriend, you've been with this guy for TEN YEARS and you don't have the guts to ask "Why did you propose if you're not ready to get married?"
I suspect he wants to live with you. (Or: Sleep with you. Are you sleeping together??) His next step is maybe not the same as your next step. But you'll never know until you ask.
Camille Vivier for AnOther Magazine via Bird Production
ESB's advice is right on. Talk it out!
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think wedding sticker shock is pretty normal in the first couple months after getting engaged. I had a number in my head going in, and so did my fiance, although his number was about 1/5th mine. After doing some research we realized we were both waaayyyyyy off about how much throwing a party for 100+ people costs. So we talked about it. We each made a list of the things that are really important to us about the wedding (me: having my HUGE family there, nice photographer; him: having an outdoor, mountain ceremony that celebrates out roots). We then made a budget that we felt could encompass these important things, without going overboard. This was harder than it sounds, and it probably took a good four months of research and (occasionally frustrating) discussion. It also took a lot of compromise on both of our parts.
It sounds like maybe you and your partner have pretty different ideas of what you want your wedding to be. If he wants small courthouse elopement and you want big wedding there will need to be some compromise. Don't get too caught up in having the OMG!PERFECT! wedding day, and focus more on the getting married part! Yay!
I was going to guess that you two have different ideas of what "being engaged" means. For you it clearly means "immediately about to get married--just need to nail down logistics". For him it could mean "that thing people do after they've been together for a while" or "something that will make my girlfriend happy" or perhaps "that thing I have to do to keep my long term girlfriend around even though I don't actually have long term plans with her" or maybe "a symbol we can live together now".
ReplyDeleteI know a couple people who really do view engagement as just one step above "going steady", pretty much. It doesn't mean they have to get married, just that they want the world to take their relationship seriously. I think that's bonkers, since one usually gets engaged after the question "will you marry me?" gets asked, but w/e.
Agree that he wants to live together. Move in and test the next stage of your relationship. Learn what compromise/talking things out is all about. When people ask about the wedding say, "we haven't set a date yet but we're moving in together and I'm really excited!" because that's a perfectly normal answer and everyone will still be excited for you. It's not a lie, it's a different truth.
ReplyDeleteI am very confused by the "I do not want a long-term engagement" line only because... what's the alternative? You can't force him into marriage before he's ready. I mean, you CAN, but I hope that's not the plan. You probs don't want to give the ring back and revert to long-term dating because... that's odd. You said you wanted to be engaged before you live together, so now you can live together! Happy times! Really, this is a good thing!
My husband DID NOT want a wedding (we eloped) and would have lost his mind at continual wedding discussion. Since Wedding Talk isn't going so well, I'd change my tone to "what do you feel is holding you back? What do you need to accomplish before you're ready?" I've seen a few friends go through this. Every time, their guy had a specific metric in mind - he wanted to pay off debt, live together for X years, etc. I think it's pretty common for guys to think this way. So you figure out the mutual goals, set a timeline, totally set aside wedding discussion until those goals are completed/timeline has passed, then reassess, "we finished that thing we needed to finish, are we ready now?"
Agreed. My husband was also loathe to talk about the wedding, so I asked him what was holding him back. In our case it wasn't a landmark he was waiting to hit, it was a paralyzing fear of talking about his emotions in front of a lot of people (i.e. vows in front of a crowd). He knew I wanted to celebrate with lots of friends and family, and rather than trying to work through what seemed like conflicting goals he would get testy when I brought up wedding planning. Once we got to the bottom of why he was not engaging in the planning process, we were able to design a celebration that worked for both of us. That trick of probing for the true source of his feelings has proved handy a few times since as well.
DeleteI just hope we find out what he says when she asks him... I want a follow up!
ReplyDeleteThis letter makes me sad. For one, there's nothing about the letter writer and what SHE wants. She waited for the boyfriend to propose and now she's waiting for him to say they can plan a wedding. Letter writer, dear friend, please spend some time working out what YOU want. What will make YOU happy. Tell your fiance these things. And please, do yourself a favor and seriously consider couples counseling, like right now. You've spent 10 years with this person. Whether the first 6, "didn't count" you're 28 now. You're a grown ass woman. Start acting like it. It's not easy, what I suggest. Something tells me it will be very hard for you. You should still do it. Do it for yourself. Do it for 38 year old you who will be pretty unhappy if you just let another 10 years go by without figuring out how to be happy.
ReplyDeleteI second the couples counseling idea. My husband and I started right after we got engaged. We were just having a lot of trouble communicating while getting stressed out about huge changes we were making in our lives. A lot of people think that couples counseling is a sign that there is something wrong with your relationship (I used to be one of these people), but now I see going to couples counseling as more of an admission that everything isn't perfect (and never will be) and that you both could be doing better. I've also found that it helps enormously in issues involving communication. Clearly the two of you are having difficulty having a difficult conversation. A good couples counselor can help with that.
DeleteSecond both of these. You're engaged to this man, so you need to feel comfortable telling him you actually want a timeline for a wedding. That's totally reasonable and a timeline doesn't cost a thing. But more importantly, you need to get to the root of why you don't feel comfortable expressing your needs. And stop saying part of your relationship "didn't count." It all counts. Your feelings and needs count. The fact that after 10 years with this guy you'd like to marry him COUNTS. Figure out what you want, own it, and then tell your fiance. Then listen right back when he tells you what he needs. And if he shuts you down or won't share his needs get thee to a couples counselor stat!
DeleteWhy do six of those years not count? Because you were young? I don't get that.
ReplyDeleteAnd you really have to talk to him.
I had the same timeline with someone I almost married, and I think she's kidding but I get it. You're wildly different people at that age from the people you are ten years later, and your relationship is barely recognizable as the same one. Might be hard to understand for those who haven't done it.
DeleteThose years count, because you did learning and growing and changing.
DeleteHa, having met my fiance super young and having both changed a ton during the years since, I would NOT take it well if he casually mentioned that time as "not counting" for any reason. So, in another 12 years when we're parents and living in the suburbs, will 2013 not count anymore? Cause we'll be different then as well...
DeleteI think she meant those six years don't count towards the time they were waiting to get engaged. If the earliest she'd have considered getting married was, say, age 24, then they've only been delaying engagement for 4 years of their 10-year relationship.
DeleteI had an on-again off-again long distance sweetie in college, and when I was deciding to move across the country to be with him after graduation, I inflated the relationship longevity to reassure myself I was making a prudent choice. I would say we had been "dating on and off for almost five years" (the actual time dating was closer to 2.5 years) or we'd "been in love for more than four years" (never mind the other people we had each dated during our "off" periods). I don't regret my choice to move, but in retrospect I can see how naive I was about what it takes to sustain a relationship over time.
So, be careful with rationalizing. Yes, you were young, but that doesn't change the fact that you've been dating for 10 years. If something bothers your about that number, that's allowed. No need to make excuses.
I don't know. Maybe I am old and cranky but 10 fracking years and you're in a non-engagement engagement?
ReplyDeleteOn the bright side. You're probably reaching a tipping point that will lead you down a happier path. Now is the time to lay all your cards on the table. ALL OF THEM. Do not cheat yourself on this.
If you want to get married tell him so. If he says no or whatever hemming and hawing coward stuff that actually means no, thats your answer.
Personally I would not get into this lifetime arrangement without both parties being super stoked--at least at the beginning.
My husband and I were together for 8 years before we got married. I can totally relate to that piece of it. Before we got engaged I was a total basketcase about what our future was together and all that, just a lot of anxiety, because I felt like he should have proposed already (we'd been living together for 3 years already when he did propose). Eventually I got to a point where I finally just said to him, "I'm not even sure that you *want* to marry me." To which he immediately replied, "I do want that." Then I immediately calmed down and cooled it with the anxiety about our future. He just needed to get there. That was a two-sentence conversation that made everything better. I know it's hard because I'm sure you (like me) don't want your BF/fiance to think you're a crazy-person, but in this case, honesty is most definitely the best policy. See above about how you'll feel if you're 38 and not married and/or not happy. Take a deep breath, tell him how you feel, then tell him that you think it's important for him to know how you're feeling. He'll likely agree. That makes what comes next easier.
ReplyDeleteUgh. It just sucks that generally women are waiting to be proposed to. Not that I fault anyone-- I won't propose to my boyfriend either. I want to be asked.
ReplyDeleteBut after a few years, it should be something all couples can at least talk about-- the timeline. It took a while for my boyfriend to even get close to talking about that, but sometimes they don't realize there are things that need to happen but can't until you're married-- having kids, for a lot of people.
It's frustrating that they seem to have all the power in a lot of cases.
God, I know. Are there any feminist thesis papers on this topic?
DeleteI can at least give a feminist biased opinion, which is that as much as I feel that either my fiance or I could have proposed to each other, I knew him well enough to know that he wanted to be the one to propose. He's not a macho guy and he's a feminist himself, but I know he never really would have felt good about not being the one to propose. Some traditions have looooong deaths it seems. We had A LOT of conversations about our future, when we wanted to get engaged, how we viewed marriage, etc. It worked really well in that I didn't feel like I was waiting to be proposed to, we just kept talking about when we'd be ready for that step and when we both were he had a ring in a month. Communication is so key in relationships and it makes me sad that so many of the Dear ESB's are from people who are anxious about talking with the person they should be most comfortable with...
DeleteI find it very interesting too. Where I live (Latinamerica), now it's becoming more common to "propose" - I blame that on movies- but I think most modern couples just decide to get married. I didn't want a proposal because that is a very big decision I don't want to be pushed to make on one second and after a big romantic gesture. Getting married was a decision we made as a couple and that we discussed for a long time as the "where this is going". I can't even imagine not being able to talk about that because some how it would be "less romantic". It's your life, not a fairy tale.
DeleteThis whole problem can be solved by a heart-to-heart in which you're both honest about how you feel, get to the root of the issue, and work out a compromise that you're both comfortable with. When my husband and I are feeling stubborn (we both tend to look out for number one rather than put ourselves in the others' shoes/want what makes THEM happy– a habit from our single days that is slowly fading but still crops up from time to time) it helps to get out of the house and change settings before trying to talk it through. Go to a favorite pub and order a yummy drink or three and open up to each other.
ReplyDeleteIf you can't do this now, you won't be able to do it when you're married. Marriage is NOT a magic fix-it for all your relationship issues. All of that remains after the vows, so you need to learn how to communicate with each other.
Move in together before you even think about the wedding. First things first.
ReplyDeleteGood luck, enjoy waking up together every morning, and get ready for dirty socks EVERYWHERE.
and loose change on the floor, all the time (or is my spouse the only one who does this?).
DeleteHa, Kelsi, same thing in my house.
Deleteit's really fun when the cat finds quarters at 3 AM. EVERY DAY.
DeleteRIGHT ? and cuff links. and pens. and marbles. and figurines. what 35yo man still has marbles and figurines ? OH YEAH, ALL OF THEM.
DeleteI just don't get why the man would go through the process of searching for a ring, asking her to marry him, then he doesn't proceed to making weddings plans. I feel sorry for her, he's a jerk..
DeleteI just don't get why the man would go through the process of searching for a ring, asking her to marry him, then he doesn't proceed to making weddings plans. I feel sorry for her, he's a jerk..
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