Hi, ESB,
I'm a fan of your blog, but I'm not planning on getting married anytime soon. At least, I thought I didn't want to.
In the past few months, I've gone to boring-ass wedding showers and a couple of weddings that seemed overly elaborate and definitely expensive. It's kind of turned me off to the idea of weddings and all of the hoopla that comes along with it.
My parents were very happily married for 30+ years (until my dad passed away a few years ago), and they set a great example for what I'd want if I ever did get married. And I used to want to. As I've gotten older, though, with shows like "Say Yes to the Dress," I've felt more wishy-washy about it -- after the wedding and the party and all of the thank-you cards have been sent, you're... still together. Maybe a new last name, definitely a lot of paperwork. People say it's different when you're actually married, but I'm just not understanding.
On top of that, my boyfriend doesn't think he wants to get married. (And I think he is my "person.") He quotes the "50% of marriages end in divorce" thing. And his parents are still married, but only because they're pretty religious and don't believe in divorce -- you can tell they just coexist and tolerate each other. He doesn't understand why your "partnership" has to be recognized by the government. I get that, but I also sort of get that it's more than that. I just can't explain to him what makes it so great, because I can't explain it myself.
I know there's a middle ground between foofy weddings and nothing at all, and I know if I did it I'd want to wear a reasonably affordable yet awesome wedding dress and just have a huge party with all of our friends and family that we actually like. Can you (or any of your readers) tell me what's so great about it, and help me form an actual opinion?
Thanks so much,
Wedding Waffler
*****
If you don't see the point and he doesn't think he wants to --> DON'T GET MARRIED
Yeesh.
File this under non-problems. (Just below "The cat barfed on my dress.")
Tavi by Christophe Kutner for Metal Magazine #26
Agreed. If you don't want to get married, don't. You are both on the same page and you love each other, what else do you need?
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth, my biggest motivating factor for getting married (besides the "it just *feels* different" argument) is for legal reasons. Having gone through some health issues this past year, I can't imagine not having the legal right to be there for him/make decisions, etc. Also my health insurance sucks balls and I'm excited to be on his fancy health insurance.
You sound a little bit like you want to want to get married, but don't actually want to get married. And perhaps feel, additionally, like you should want it.
ReplyDeleteYou don't need to want to. And if some small part of you does want to, and you don't know why, I think that's ok, too. Sometimes we feel illogical things.
I couldn't figure out why I wanted to get married and spent literal months worrying it was for the ring or the attention or the gifts or because of expectations. But it turned out I just wanted to marry him.
For some people getting married changes a lot. For my partner and I being married feels exactly like being un-married. Our wedding was important to me for a lot of reason: Namely, celebrating our community and all the ways they support us be throwing them a kick-ass party. Also, I just wanted the party and the hoopla (but not the centerpieces or the favors or the other*stuff*). I've never, in my whole life, been as happy as I was on my wedding day. But here's the thing is you DO. NOT. NEED. the hoopla. Or the wedding. It's only there if you want it and think you'll be into it.
ReplyDeleteEnjoy being with your person. Maybe one day you'll have a burning desire to get married. (We were together nine years before it felt like something we should do.) Or maybe you never will. Either way, the important thing is just enjoying each other's company and supporting each other and chilling out.
It sounds like she doesn't want the traditional WEDDING but is maybe interested in MARRIAGE. I capitalize these words for the OP sake as she seems to be crossing the streams on these two very different things. One is a party. The other is a formalization of your relationship. They are not the same and you certainly don't need a wedding to get married. You do however need two folks on the same page who want the same things and who are willing to work their asses off for it to have a marriage.
ReplyDeleteStop worrying about what kind of wedding you might or might not want and figure out if you want to get married. You could try talking to him about the aspects of marriage (Not weddings, my friend, MARRIAGE) that you like and want to emulate. See if he can get on board with any of it. Be it speaking vows/promises to each other in your living room all the way to getting a marriage license and going to the courthouse. There's lots of ways to formalize your bond, some legal and others not. I think you need to figure out what it is exactly you want, instead of what you two don't want. Just sayin.
^^ Yes, you seem to be mixing up the terminology. It sounds like you're sort of interested in the idea of marriage, but you aren't sure. All you know is you don't want the obnoxious wedding stuff. Your partner does not want to do the marriage. I wouldn't even be asking about the wedding stuff here if you're not even on the same page about the marriage/type of commitment that you want.
DeleteWell, do you not want to get married, or do you not want a wedding? 'cause if neither of you want to get married, then don't do it.
ReplyDeleteFor my partner and I, being married feels exactly like not being married (we had been living together for a few years beforehand, granted). That said: I'm also currently pregnant, and we've had some official-paperwork-stuff to take care of in the past bit that was really stressful, and other people tend to react better to "my husband will call you for X" than "my boyfriend will call you for X" - it's just really expedient for getting things DONE. For us, it also means that if I'm in the hospital having said child, he has automatic rights to be there, and to make decisions if anything needs to be decided. Basically: it really DOES come down to a legal issue, but the legal issue can be pretty effing practical, depending on the situation!
yeah you for sure can't confuse marriage with wedding. two different things, and important to sort those feelings out.
ReplyDeletesounds to ME like she isn't sure if she wants to get married so she is crowd sourcing thoughts on it. which seems fair enough. for us, after 6 years of living together marriage felt much the same. now 5 years (and a kid, and a career change, and blah blah blah) later, it doesn't. but whose to say the marriage is responsible for that different feeling. maybe we would have it as unmarried partners just the same, after time.
i do think it's something you can let your self conscious bubble on until you feel a do or don't. what's the hurry? i'll end with something that ira glass said, and i always liked:
"I think, actually, one of the things that's a comfort in marriage is that there isn't a door at seven years. And so if something is messed up in the short-term, there's a comfort of knowing, well, we made this commitment. And so we're just going to work this out. And even if tonight we're not getting along or there's something between us that doesn't feel right, you have the comfort of knowing, we've got time. We're going to figure this out. And that makes it so much easier. Because you do go through times when you hate each other's guts."
episode transcrip
Yes, Jamie! I was searching for that Ira quote, so glad you found it and shared it. It sums up a huge reason why marriage rocks.
DeleteA lot of my friends started off in their long-term partnerships staunchly against ever being married. But as they bought houses together, contemplated having children together, and started businesses together as committed couples, the advantages of legal marriage became very clean. That's on the technical side. On the spiritual and emotional side, a wedding is a really special moment where you express your love and devotion to the love of your life and you get to hear them express that right back. And marriage just means you both have the security of knowing the other person can't bolt when it gets hard, which it will.
There's absolutely no rush- let yourself bubble on it like Jamie said- but be open and allow your opinions and feelings on it to change. All my stubborn anti-marriage friends? They're all married now and loving it.
Lived with my now-husband for 4 years before we got married, had dated for 3 years before we moved in together. The wedding was a lovely reason to see all our friends and family in one place, and it made my parents and his very happy. But not a thing is different (def not my last name)-- was good before, it's good now. That's one woman's opinion, anyhow.
ReplyDeleteTo me, it sounds like you DO want to get married, you just feel like you SHOULDN'T because you hate foofy wedding-y shit. Personally I think that the (typically male) perspective of "nothing really changes, why should we tell the government/why do we need a sheet of paper" is kind of lame. To me, this is just a slightly more easily digestible version of "I don't really feel like committing to a life with you." Now, I don't know you and I don't know your BF, I'm just giving my two cents. If you want to get married because you want a commitment, feel that way whole-heartedly. ESB has shown us plenty of sick courthouse/backyard/whatever chill weddings to know that you don't need white polyester and tuxedos to be married. All I can do regarding the "what actually changes" question is tell you what my experience was: the few minutes of exchanging vows at my wedding were some of the most emotionally intense of my life where my brain and heart just exploded with happiness and love. So that was awesome. Also, now that we're married, my husband and I communicate much more freely (not that we didn't before) and we talk about the future in a much more concrete and less abstract way. I know intellectually that nothing ought to have changed, but somehow it did, in short, shit got real, in the best way possible. Yeah, there's a lot of divorce out there. That's where you have to be sure that you want to marry that person, and not just to be married.
ReplyDeleteTo me, this is just a slightly more easily digestible version of "I don't really feel like committing to a life with you."
DeleteThis.
I wasn't going to actually say so, because I know I suffer from Smug Married-itis and pretty much try to stay mum on other people's relationships because I know I'm still a bit smug, but, yeah. I had much the same marriage experience as you ("shit got real, in the best way possible" is almost verbatim of what I've said myself).
I happened to be looking at this article today. It's pretty generic and familiar, but a) it's totally about marriage, not weddings and b) it's really about committed relationships that happen to be called marriage. So I would say if that stuff sounds familiar, sounds like your relationship, you are already married. If it sounds appealing/like where you are headed, you can be there with or without a piece of paper, but it is more commonly associated with that legal state. It's pretty unromantic sounding, but also kind of great in its own way.
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I lived together for several years before getting married. After the wedding, we felt the same. But do people treat our relationship differently now? Yes. It's not right, but they definitely do. Plus we have legal protections we didn't have before, and it saved us a ton of money on car insurance, of all things. Being the practical person that I am, those things have made being married great, even if I don't feel any different.
ReplyDeleteOh, and that whole 50% of marriages end in divorce thing? Not true. Never has been, probably never will. It was based on flawed statistics. And the number goes way down as age and education levels rise, so if you're 25+ and college-educated, the number is relatively low.
For us, the decision to get married was the product of a bunch of long, profoundly unsexy conversations about our relationship and what we wanted from our lives. We knew we wanted to build a life together, and that meant talking about taxes and insurance and visas and what would happen if our parents became ill and needed are and what would happen if we became ill and needed care and what country should we live in and what's the deal with the cat and so on and so on. What came out of that was a decision that, yes, we wanted to be married.
ReplyDeleteWe're not getting married 'til next year, but I've got to say that I do feel kind of... changed now that I'm wearing an engagement ring. It reminds me of all those conversations we had and decisions we made. The wedding will be a wedding. I'm excited about it and also positive that I'll look back on the dress and wonder what I was thinking. But I'm really glad we're getting married.
It's totally possible to not want a wedding, but to want a marriage. I want my wedding for the symbolism of pledging our love to each other in front of our friends and family, and because for me it feels like an awesome way to have everyone meet and dance. Everything else is just decoration and I can do as much or as little as I want. What the marriage means to me is that it is showing the world that we are a team, a partnership, and a family. And there are some pretty important legal rights that back that up that you really shouldn't flat out ignore if you do envision yourself spending the next 50 years with this person. Family medical leave, ease of visiting in the hospital, maternity or adoption leave should it come up. Not a reason to get married if it's not for you, but definitely worth thinking about how these things can impact your future. I guess for me, while I intend to be with my fiance forever whether we get married or not, I like what it will say to the world about our commitment to each other when he's me "husband" rather than my "boyfriend." It's shitty, but people absolutely take your relationship more seriously.
ReplyDeleteMarriage is a pretty good way to signal to your friends/family/society/each other that you mean it - you're in it for the long haul. Because while it's relatively easy to walk away from a relationship (even a long term one), it's not so easy to walk away from a marriage. Divorce is messy. It's supposed to be - you're ending a legal as well as a personal relationship. That's the point.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I agree with the original post. Getting married without really having a reason - just because it's expected of you - is about the worst thing you can do ...
tavi, bear hat, amen.
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I got married because we wanted to commit to each other. We were declaring that we are now officially each other's family. That is a wonderful feeling.
ReplyDeleteBefore getting married my husband and I lived together for nearly six years and so immediately after the wedding I told people that not much had changed (except we had had an amazing party). But then a month later I was in a pretty major car accident and I was SO HAPPY we were married. It's a signal to others that your relationship is important (which shouldn't always matter but does when talking about a doctor who needs permission to cut into you and you're barely conscious). Also, all of that government recognition is important in times of emergency and when dealing with legal matters. We've also had a baby and marriage makes that entire process easier/more streamlined too.
ReplyDeleteI also think the idea that ending a marriage is really difficult/time-consuming/expensive compared to ending other relationships is important. You can't just walk away. Since OP seems to recognize that many relationships end, the act of getting married may make you more likely to work on staying together.
A few years ago, my mother's mom (my grandmother) had a bad fall and was rushed to the hospital. Due to the nature of her work my mother could not be reached for several hours. Instead my father went to the hospital, sat with my grandmother (his mother-in-law), kept her calm, spoke with the doctors, made some decisions about the next steps with her care, and calmed and filled in my mother when she was able to get to the hospital. This incident hugely shaped the way I view the importance of the institution of marriage and how important it is to marry someone you trust not just with your life, but the lives of the people closest to you (parents and children). Would the hospital have even called my dad if my parents weren't married? Would he have been allowed to sit with and comfort my grandmother? Would they have trusted him to make important decisions that my mother was not there to make? My future husband and I are getting married because we want to be in each others' corner, permanently, and we want society to take that seriously. I don't want us to be "like family" or "basically family" or even just "we've been together a while." When the shit hits the fan in life (and it will), I want the whole world to know and respect that he and I are in it together.
ReplyDeleteGetting married -- no matter what kind of wedding you have -- means you get to go through a rite of passage that adds huge meaning to your relationship... Of course it doesn't have to be expensive or foofy, with you wearing a skyscraper tiara and a meringue dress... But you can also turn the question around and ask: Why deny yourself an immensely memorable 'once in a lifetime' experience, simply because of some lame stat about divorce (invented by the gods only know who) or the observation that other people might unthinkingly bumble along together in their marriages of mutual tolerance or convenience? Years later, you can look back with break-taking fondness on the marriage and especially your exchange of vows. You can also look back and laugh at the ridiculous obsession with stats that (and it's a pity!) is the hallmark of an unthinking lifestyle in this era.
ReplyDelete'Face each other now and remember this amazing moment in time. Before this moment you have been many things to one another - friend, companion, lover, dancing partner, even teacher, for you have learned much from each other over the years. Shortly you will say a few words that will take you across the threshold of life and things between you will never be the same. You shall say to the world - This is my husband. This is my wife.'
ReplyDeleteRobert Fulghum - Union. This is EXACTLY what I was thinking about.
DeleteI don't care much about who wants to get married and who doesn't. I kind of always knew I eventually wanted to get married and (surprise!) I did, and it's awesome. Even though my husband and I lived happily together for 7 years prior, being married brought on some kind of perceptible stronger commitment that I totally didn't expect and I'm glad we did it.
ReplyDeleteI just want to chime in to say that fucking "50% of marriages end in divorce" so-called stat is SO misunderstood. There are all kinds of factors (age, education level, religion, culture, whether it's first or second (or third...) marriage, socioeconomic status, etc. Saying 50% of marriages end in divorce certainly is catchy, but it doesn't really explain what's going on, and it certainly isn't true that everybody who's getting married has a 50/50 shot at staying that way.
If you're 100% committed to each other for life, share joint assets, and want your partner to make decisions for you in the event that you're incapacitated, then there are very practical reasons to marry:
ReplyDelete-In times of crisis, spouses have hospital visitation rights and can make medical decisions in event of illness or disability of their spouse.
-The law provides certain automatic rights to a person's spouse regardless of whether or not a will exists.
-The dissolution of a marriage requires a determination of property distribution, award of child custody and support and spousal support. Absent divorce, there is no uniform system for sorting out the ending of a relationship.
You can find more here:
http://www.marriageequality.org/get-the-facts
If none of these legalities matter to you, then by all means, stay single.