Dear ESB:
My fiance and I had an engagement party this past weekend, hosted by my future in-laws. It was a lovely affair, and everyone seemed to enjoy themselves. Until the end...oh the end...
For some background: my fiance's younger brother has been dating his high school sweetheart, who we will call Dee, for seven years. My fiance and I have been dating just over two. When we got engaged, Little Brother and Dee promptly broke up. I always suspected this was because she was angry that I received a ring before her. They eventually got back together, and are now engaged themselves, and planning a wedding for six months after ours. We are in our early thirties; Little Brother and Dee in their early twenties.
Back to the party. As the night wound down and drinks begin flowing freely, a friend of mine asked Little Brother and Dee about their engagement. When my friend learned that they had dated seven years prior to becoming engaged, she asked if they had ever gone through any breakups or setbacks. Dee responded, with a giggle, "Well, there was that one time." Having always heard there was more than one break-up, I said, "One time?" I knew right away I shouldn't have said it, but it had already flown out of my mouth.
The response was apocalyptic. Dee stormed about for about thirty minutes, telling everyone that I was a bitch, my fiance (her future brother in law) was an asshole, that we were disgusting, rude, horrible people and she hated us both. I tried to apologize, as I did not intend to hurt her with my flippant, thoughtless remark, and she waved her finger in my face, calling me a rude bitch and saying that she hated both me and my fiance.
Her parents finally picked her up and the party ended soon after.
I am traumatized and humiliated by this event, and certainly do not want someone who hates us and thinks we are disgusting to be present at our wedding, but I do not foresee a way we cannot invite her without causing huge family drama.
How should I proceed with this? Wait for an apology that I am certain will never come? Just forget her name on the invite? Take the high road and let it go?
Thanks!
A Disgusting, Rude Bitch
*****
The Bad News: You have to invite her. You know you have to invite her.
The Good News: Girlfriend was blackout drunk. She'll never remember what happened.
Collage via Jamala Johns. Anyone know who made it??
I actually would try to make contact with her, inviting her to lunch and maybe an afternoon of shopping together, to immediately break up any possible tensions, embarrassments, etc. ESB could well be right that Dee remembers nothing of it. But just in case...
ReplyDeleteTake the high road and treat her like your younger sister whenever you see her, with the view that you're generously helping to work things out. It's easy to do this without appearing patronizing - just be as relaxed as possible with her. Goal achieved if you can make her into one of your "close friends" and do girly bonding stuff together. This way, if she comes to your wedding (which she most probably will as soon-to-be family), she'll more likely be better-behaved.
As a side note: Dee does sound a tad resentful towards her fiance and life in general. Which is why appearing "open" and "friendly" to her, whenever you have the chance, might help turn things around. The girl is most probably insecure and needs support (smiles, compliments, generosity) from people to feel stronger about herself. She's still in her early twenties, after all...
Really sorry to hear you've had this kind of experience. There's no doubt about it - acting that way at a party (no less, an engagement party) was extremely childish. And being drunk, or young-ish, was no excuse whatsoever. But I'd still try taking the sweet-talking path and see if it works. It's worth a shot at least.
Good Luck! xox
Yes! I wholeheartedly agree with this advice! After all, she is marrying into your family too! You guys essentially will be sisters. I've had some pretty awful fights with my sister, but you just have to suck it and try to be a bigger person. Tell her you are sorry, and try to build a relationship with her. At the very least, it doesn't sound like it could possibly make things any worse!
DeleteIt didn't sound like the OP was worried her future sil would remember - it sounds like she's worried she won't apologize and the OP will have to pretend she doesn't think her future sil is a terrible person - which she so obviously is.
ReplyDeleteOP, I think you have every right to have your fiance (because its his family, his mess) talk to his brother about how immature and inappropriate his fiancees behavior was and that she owes you an apology. She might refuse, this might cause more tension, but if you come at this with an attitude of just being really disappointed in her terrible behavior and just real sad and calm, you'll be the winner in this. It sounds like she may in fact not be able to respond like an adult which will only make her look like an ass.
Of course you have to invite her. You even have to be nice to her. Because you're the better person. It's not always fun to take the high road, but it always makes you come out the winner looking classy as fuck.
disagree! don't suck your fiancee and his brother into this - it would make it more dramatic than it has to be. this sounds like something you would do in high school, don't send anyone to demand apologies unless you want all hell to break loose.
DeleteThe 'only once' comment was catty and rude, which I think OP owns up to. SIL's reaction was over the top, but I think you both could do with apologising to each other.
I don't think having the brothers talk is dragging them into this. If the SIL's reaction was as over the top as it sounds like, the fiance and his parents should be very upset about the incident and deserving of an apology themselves. (Personally I'd be livid if I threw a nice engagement party for my son, probably inviting some of my own friends/colleagues, and then another guest ruined it by going nutso at the end.) If they are not that upset about the incident and demanding apologies themselves, then I think OP should take this as an indication that it was expected because the SIL always acts this way or, more likely, the entire event is overblown in her own mind (in which case she should just let things rest, or maybe even apologize for the snide comment herself).
DeleteIf its the first time she pulls something like that on OP, i think OP should make amends and forget about "getting an apology". While the reaction was highly disproportionate, OP's comment WAS rude. I don't care that she's right, it's not her business to vent her sil's business out to other people or put her on the spot like that. The alcohol goes both way, and if OP felt her tongue slipped because of it then why not grant the same excuse to SIL? SIL sounds incredibly insecure, but she IS going to be part of the family, try to extend the olive branch maybe? I'm not saying you have to be BFF with her, just keep the peace for both weddings and future family gatherings.
ReplyDeleteI don't know - acting like the OP asking, "Only once?" is some sort of drunken, bitchy flub is WAY overreacting. Right? I mean think about that. What kind of person flips out over that? An unstable person - that's who.
DeleteIf the future SIL did it at the engagement party - what's going to happen at the wedding? Obvs this chick can't act right and I think the OP should deal with this NOW before it becomes a regular and accepted occurrence within her new family structure (i.e. "Oh Dee ALWAYS acts out of control, just ignore it.") or before the sil does something just as ridiculous at the wedding.
Right? 1 bitchy comment to a table of people vs. 30 minutes of raging at the entire party. Not the same thing.
DeleteI agree with OP 7:28. Both the OP and the future sil made stupid, drunken mistakes. Yes, the sil did it for 30 minutes while OP made one snide remark, but OP also started it.
DeleteI think that OP should try to put herself in the sil's shoes. Yes, her response makes her seem unstable but maybe she is unstable because she is so resentful that her relationship has taken so long to progress. And while she obviously shouldn't take it out on the OP and her fiance, it is the kind of thing one often does when you are young, immature, and generally resentful. So OP should be the bigger person and kill this girl with kindness. Then no one can accuse you of actually being a horrible person and if the girl ever flips out again she will be clearly seen for her awful nature. The only other thing to do (in addition to being as nice as possible to fsil) is to have your fiance talk with his younger brother. Your fiance (and his parents) should also be upset by this girl's crazy antics and deserve an apology as much or more so than the bride to be (since OP did kind of start it). So take your lead from them, because they've known this girl a lot longer than you.
Why do we as a society act like telling people who act ridiculous (i.e. Dee) is somehow not ok? Don't we want people who flip out to know they need to knock it the fuck off? Why is the answer to always just forget about it or deal with it? People who act like fools, need to be told it won't be tolerated. Its the ignoring or making the more rational, calm person be the one to keep their mouths shut, that is so the opposite of what should be happening. The OP wasn't bitchy in my mind and even if she was, she clearly stated she tried to apologize and was called a bitch for it. I would have told the future BIL to get his woman out of my party the minute she started acting like a huge child. It's disgusting behavior and should be shunned, shamed and corrected.
Delete"it is the kind of thing one often does when you are young, immature, and generally resentful"
DeleteWhat the fuck? Who does this? Who acts like this? This is not normal nor acceptable behavior. EVER. Regardless of age, drunkenness, great emotional distress - its NEVER ok to act the way Dee did. Because that's not how adults act. And Dee is clearly (early 20's) and adult. It's time she start acting like one.
First anon of this tread here: I'm sorry but while i do think Dee was out of line, i hate how our society automatically side with the "calm" person. Just because OP said that comment and "tried" to apologize does not make it okay. She didn't tell her she didn't like her hair color she basically corned her in front of 30 people about not only her dating life being less then peachy she was also calling her a liar indirectly by doing so AND judging her, at an engagement party, honey moon phase. Yeah Dee's reaction was over the top but isn't that exactly why? Why are we not assuming that it was the last straw for her? Just because she was loud? I think she over did it, i think she lost face and credibility...
DeleteAnd yes, if it's the only time she did something booze or no booze, why not try to make amends? If she pulls it again, yeah totally call her out on her shit. Tell her you won't stand for that.
And i was not saying drunkenness was an excuse, the OP did and i was bringing up the fact that if OP feels she can be forgiven for her comment due to booze then why can't she do the same for SIL? Very double standard in my humble opinion.
I get my point of view isn't popular and I'm okay with that. The way I read OP's post it felt things might not be that black and white...
I'm perfectly fine with siding with the quiet person who doesn't make a scene. But I'm a WASP from New England....
Delete"she basically corned her in front of 30 people about not only her dating life being less then peachy she was also calling her a liar indirectly by doing so AND judging her, at an engagement party, honey moon phase."
DeleteReally? Saying two words, means all of the above? Really? Maybe Dee is commenting here because it seems hella clear to me that Dee has a severe problem. I am the most emotional and sensitive person I know. My feelings can be hurt if you just look at me funny. I get drunk and loud and act silly myself sometimes. I have been at weddings with my partner of 10+ years where people have told me my relationship meant less than theirs because I wasn't legally married. I've been drunk and had people say nasty things to me - who hasn't? I have NEVER, nor would I ever act the way Dee did. Would you, defenders of Dee? If you're going to pretend that Dee should be placated and catered to, then I guess you act the way Dee does too and think its totally fine and excusable.
Dee's behavior is so clearly a thousand times worse than anything the OP did - it in fact negates whatever the OP said in my mind, because Dee's reaction was so disgusting. It's DISGUSTING. People are not allowed to act this way. NO MATTER WHAT.
First anon here: Actually no, im super WASP-Y in public and gathering :) And i highly disagree with you.
DeleteHow is saying "One time?" not implying that SIL and her fiancé have broken up several times!? And that she's glossing over it which SIL clearly was, but you don't do that about other's people relation ship, especially in public. Of what you said you sure know how that feels.
I never said Dee actions were even close to okay, i repeatedly say that they are terrible, loud,etc but to act like "poor OP" is faultless in this and did nothing wrong is bs if you ask me.
Oh and coming from a verbally abusive background myself, i can tell you that some people play the "quiet" card to make sure that when the other person finally explode, after taking verbal abuse for hours, THEY look bad. I'm not saying it's Dee's situation, i'm saying that this does color my opinion. And someone down in the comment made a clearly statement about why OP sounds kind of not all clean.
Invite her. Be nothing but awesome to her when you see her. I wouldn't go out of your way to be be super inclusive or over the top friendly, unless you really mean it (which I bet you don't) it's just going to come across as fake or condescending.
ReplyDeleteAnd maybe have your fiancee's Mom or Dad (whoever is closer the younger brother) inform the younger brother that Dee's behavior is totally unacceptable?
Am I the only one who thinks the OP was very indelicate, with that unecessary comment? I actually think the OP should apologize to Dee, not the opposite.
ReplyDeleteYou are not the only one. Tone matters.
DeleteYou really think Dee shouldn't apologize?
DeleteI feel weird that I kind of agree. I'm sure she struggled with the relationship being taken seriously as an "on again, off again" (from what it sounds like) and tone DEFINITELY matters, as well as their relationship. If this was a good friend of mine who made a joking remark, I wouldn't feel so bad. But someone who perhaps said it in a smug "hm. only ONCE?" tone, to undermine me, over my shoulder? I'd be HELLA pissed, too. I would NOT go off on a tirade trashing this girl at her own engagement party, but I'd hold a mean grudge.
DeleteIn no way am I condoning the girl's behavior, it was awful, but it sounds like OP "waiting for an apology" and her beliefs on why they broke up/got engaged after the OP means she doesn't understand where this girl is coming from and DOES in fact, think of herself as older, wiser and slightly superior.
I think OP definitely made a catty and unnecessary comment - and think they both need to apologise and work it out together.
Deletesaying 'only once?' was judgemental and brought unnecessary dirty laundry into public that wasn't hers to share, and the fact that the OP says she realises she shouldn't have said it as soon as the words left her lips shows that she knew it was a mean comment to make.
Dee's response was ridic though.
I kind of agree as well... While Dee's reaction was over the top, OP pushed a very fragile button in this girl who she admits she always knew "was angry that (OP) received a ring before her". Crazy response to a couple of words- yes. But sometimes a couple of words is all it takes to get to someone where it really hurts. She clearly struck a chord. Had OP bit her tongue, it sounds like this would have never happened. Dee was obviously trying to keep things light by saying "Well, there was that one time." and OP called her out as a liar AND how weak her relationship is? I wouldn't have a 30 minute shit-fit, but I may have poured my glass of wine on her and walked out. And now OP actually wrote out that she wants to un-invite Dee from her wedding? That's not how you enter a family, no matter how crazy Dee was. You started it, you fix it. Use the ten years of maturity you have on her, and be the bigger person. Or does she WANT to have family drama forever?? I'd guess that as long as OP doesn't say anything rude to Dee at the wedding, she'd be just fine. I'm sure she's very embarrassed.
Delete(1st anon here) I think both should apologize to each other. But the OP could be the bigger person an be the first to do so.
DeleteAs OP, I totally agree. Never should have said it. If I'd had a little less alcohol in my system, there's no way it would have cleared the filter.
DeleteIt was dumb and hurtful, and I know saying I didn't mean it to be dumb and hurtful doesn't make it less so.
I talked about that higher up too. Totally agree. Feels like she's formulating things to sound like she's trying to make it sound like her comment was really not that bad, really even though it is pretty darn rude.
ReplyDeleteShe describes her comment as "flippant, thoughtless" which it definitely was, but I wouldn't consider it anything much worse than that. Certainly not worth a 30 minute scene that involves going a party to yell about how terrible the guests of honor are.
DeleteThere are ways to let someone know they've said something bitchy and unacceptable. That's not it.
If I were the OP and I really was sorry about what happened/concerned about my future SIL's behavior at my wedding, I'd call her up or meet with her to apologize. OP said she apologized during the 30 minute freak-out, but now that there's been some time, and things have calmed down, an apology would mean more. That way the OP's slate is clean and she's done all she can on her end.
ReplyDeleteIf the OP isn't sorry and doesn't want to deal with the SIL again, just invite her to the wedding ('cause she def. has to) and see what happens. Chances are SIL won't get drunk and freak out again- and if she does that'll be the second strike for her as far as your family/in-laws are concerned, and everyone will know for sure that she's nuts.
This letter is filled with red flags that the OP is at least half of the problem here.
ReplyDeleteRed flag #1: OP's first paragraph, where she says she "always suspected [their breakup] was because she was angry that I received a ring before her." This phrasing is weird. The only women I've ever known who say things like "got a ring before her" are women who are hyper-competitive with one another about stupid shit like who got engaged first. Ok, not enough to call out this whole letter on, but it gave me a weird feeling before I even got to the second paragraph.
Red flag #2: OP, without thinking, calls out her (10 years younger!) future SIL at an engagement party. And consider how it was delivered - probably not neutrally, as she knows the answer to the question. It seems much more likely to have been said with a raised eyebrow and a smirk (that's how I'd say it, were I tactless enough to say that). We also have to consider whether the OP has ever said catty remarks like this before - given the SIL's response, my guess is yes.
Red flag #3: OP thinks she can somehow get out of inviting her future SIL to the wedding. That's absurd, and bringing it up suggests that the OP is at least as immature as the SIL.
I'm not saying that the SIL's actions are ok, or even understandable. I'm just saying that reading between the lines, I think there are two people here who have been and are creating all this drama. OP's a decade older but is acting like a catty, competitive teenage girl. OP, it's time for you to examine how *you're* contributing to the dynamic between you and your future SIL.
-LM
YES YES YES.
DeleteThank you.
THANKYOU! That's what i was trying to say!
Deleteword
DeleteTHIS. I posted before I scrolled down and saw this but THIS- you nailed it.
DeleteNailed it times a million.
DeleteYep!
DeleteI agree with this also.
DeleteI understand the OP's point of view, but really, if I were in the SIL's situation and OP said that to me, I would hate her too - silently and politely, sure, but still.
In a weird way she's done the OP more of a favor than I would have done. If OP has any desire to repair things, it may be more do-able with someone who's open (way TOO open) about her feelings.
OP here.
DeleteI swear I didn't smirk, raise an eyebrow, or devilishly twirl my hair when I said it. It was a bitchy remark, I totally agree, but it wasn't a premeditated thing.
Of course, when I wrote this and was super hot under the collar, I was thinking of all the ways I could NOT have this girl at my wedding. Now, I obviously know that's of course that's not an option, and an overreaction on my end. She was drunk and pissed. I'm not saying I think her behavior was okay - I still don't - but I get it, and it's done.
The funny thing is, I swear on the Bible, before this, we got along fine. Or at least, I thought we did. Maybe I missed something along the way?
It sucked, the whole thing, for both of us, I'm sure, and we'll have to carry on from here.
She might owe you an apology but you definitely owe her one right back. Her drunken tirade was uncalled for, but you embarrassed her in a very real way. You knew she was vulnerable and you exploited it for a laugh. Maybe this isn't really the case, but you come off like a jerk in this story. Apologize to her; take her out for brunch/lunch (something with minimal drinking) and smooth things over.
ReplyDeletenow that I've read this whole chain of very thoughtful and highly analytical comments, mine seems just as flip as the OP's "just one?", but I was going to say...
ReplyDeleteI once SLAPPED my boyfriend's best friend -- one of the best, sweetest men I know -- IN THE FACE and called him a horrible name at a party because he used my expensive organic whipped cream to huff nitrous. I'm not kidding. We were both stupidly drunk, it was an absurd and mortifying incident that did not reflect ANYTHING based in reality, and he never held it against me, thank GOD.
Not quite the same situation as OP's, and apologies are perhaps more in order there (in a perfect world), but just saying, dumb shit happens, don't dwell.
HA! Amazing.
DeleteI think you need to apologize, OP, because even if she was the one who exploded, you're the one who lit her fuse. Own up to it and be the grownup.
ReplyDeleteI also think someone (not you, but someone she'll listen to) should make it *crystal clear * that tantrums like the one your FSIL threw are not okay, and they'll have real repercussions for her. Sheesh.
You were a bitch. That girl went nutso. You need to meet for drinks and hash this shit out like grown ups (read: don't try to addresses this over text or email or some other tween bullshit). This woman will be your sisiter in law for ever, so, no, you can't fucking uninvite her.
ReplyDeleteAnyone else curious about what the mil is like? Her sons seem bet attracted to crazy bitches.
OP here!
DeleteAs I mentioned below, I wrote this when things were still super fresh in my mind, hence the "OMG CAN I JUST NOT INVITE HER?" panicky train of thought. It's not an option I would ever really pursue. Yes, I said something bitchy, I fully admit that, and would love to apologize again, and not over text.
MIL, for the record, is lovely and sweet, and horrified by all this. I have had the chance to apologize to her, and have done so.
If Dee truly hates OP and OP's fiancé as she said, then Dee wouldn't go to their wedding even if invited, now would she? So, invite her regardless; problem solved. But, it's really doubtful Dee actually hates the couple. She was just hurt, drunk, and acted a damn fool. I think OP knows this, but it seems she hopes for a little bit of justification so she doesn't feel as childish as Dee was by advancing this fight with an invite snub. That's no good. ESB is right: Dee's gotta be invited.
ReplyDeleteOP "started it" the last time, so I think she should start it this time, too. Plus, the OP stated some interest in "the high road," and if Dee is actually sorry about how she acted I bet she's so embarrassed that the idea of approaching the OP is terrifying. No point in dragging this out longer. Meet up ASAP and say that *you* are very sorry again, now that everyone is sober. Then, *give her time* and space to get over it and say sorry to you. Hopefully it all works out okay.
OP needs to apologize, and actually sincerely mean it. You don't get to be the rude snarky one AND the mature one. Think about it, OP is older, probably in a more stable place in her life, in a relationship that clearly people take seriously, and at her engagement party. One would hope that with all that going for her she could be a little more graceful with the other guests. It didn't happen, and it blew up in her face. So if she wants to go back to being the well-behaved future daughter in law, she needs to take some responsibility for implying in front of the guests at her party that another couple's relationship is a joke, apologize to Dee, and invite her to the wedding. If Dee wants to continue to be awful and a mess then just see her as little as possible. But that's the only way OP is gonna go back to being the "good one" in this.
ReplyDeleteHi, I'm OP.
ReplyDeleteIt's been really interesting to read everyone's comments, and I definitely see both sides.
First, I wrote this when this was all SUPER fresh in my mind. It's been a little longer now, and things have settled. We've tried, as a couple, to reach out to little brother and Dee. She seemed to have a problem with both of us as of that night (hence, the he's an asshole and I'm a bitch comments), so we thought maybe the four of us could sit down and discuss everything.
No go. Can't get in contact with them. At this point, my anger is burned up and now I'm just kind of over it. Yes, it was upsetting, and no, I never really intended to leave her off the guest list. It seemed like a great idea 48 hours post finger-in-my-face.
Was I rude and bitchy? Probably. I didn't mean it like that, truly. I didn't raise my eyebrow and smirk as I said it, it just flew out of my dumb, careless mouth, and I regretted it immediately. I fully intend to apologize, but do not want to do so over text, so hence the desire for a face to face. Since that's not happening, I'm just going to be polite and more cautious in my words from now on.
Thanks to everyone, even those who think I'm a bitch. :)
I've been the queen of insensitive remarks before and here are my words of wisdom. First of all, don't sit down in a group, whatever you do! That just makes it about too many people, too many issues, and if she's feeling embarrassed is only going to make her more defensive. Deal with only the issue between you two. Think of your fiance as an accidental target, and forgive that unless she wants to talk to him about.
DeleteSecond, just apologize- don't wait on it, even if she's not picking up. Don't text but you know what would be lovely and old fashioned? A handwritten apology card. An apology email is also good. Here's my suggestion: "I am so sorry about what I said. I never meant to touch a nerve and it was completely wrong and thoughtless to remark on your relationship at all and I'm kicking myself and I just am so sorry. I was drunk but that's only an explanation, not an excuse. I hope we can make up, and if there's more you need to say about our relationship, I want to listen, because we should always be able to talk to each other. We're going to be related soon and I am really excited to have you as a sister, even when we fight (just like real sisters I guess?). So one last time, I am so sorry."
The nice thing about this kind of apology is that you do not ask her to do anything. Most apologies come out like this, "So sorry, BUT YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT YOU ALSO...." and its a big effing red flag to a person. This way you give her space to apologize if she wants to. If she doesn't want to, you give her permission to let it go, and you will 100% look like the bigger person from here on out, provided you do truly let it go. And I think you should. She's younger and this gives her a space.
You should also be ready for the fact that maybe there is something else there. Is it an insecurity? You are the newer fiance of the two, you are older, I'm going to guess you have your life stuff together more, is this maybe something where she might feel like the in-laws already like you more or you have nicer clothes and hair or go to more events with the family or a sibling rivalry between the guys? Because that wold perhaps explain a big part of the overreaction and if that's the case you need to find a way to let her know she's the one with the inside knowledge or check and make sure that if you go shopping with your new mom in law, she gets to come too, that sort of thing.
If you are both in it for the long run with these two brothers then cut the crap. You can't go rubbing each other up the wrong way. By the sounds of it Dee is young and insecure and you played on that, consciously or subconsciously, and that's not cool. Now you both look like a pair of massive tits. Oh what a to-do.
ReplyDeleteJust string it up as a gin-fuelled, day-13-of-the-pill-cycle storm in a teacup. Play nice or not at all.