Dear ESB,
I wrote to you a few months ago. You diagnosed me with "Post-Nuptial Know-It-All Syndrome" and I was cured that very instant. My friend is happily engaged and I am totally on board and happy about it. (and a little bit ashamed of my earlier behavior...).
But now... my own marriage is in trouble. Yes, Karma's a bitch...
My husband has a very stressful job, which he used to enjoy a lot. Until now. He lost a lot of weight from stressing and is always tired. If we meet up with friends that haven't seen him in a while, they all are worried. So am I. I thought he was just really stressed out about his job. But... he told me he is stressed out about everything. About life.
Before marrying we talked about eventually buying a house and starting a family in the not so far future. But the not so far future is happening now and he is freaking out. About buying a house. About having children. About marrying me. About everything. He doesn't know what he wants and he keeps telling me "he doesn't know whose life he is leading." He has no idea what he wants to do and is just really losing it.
With every inch of my body I want to hold him and tell him everything is going to be all right. This man has helped me through the worst time of my life and has been my rock. But now that he's in trouble himself he doesn't let me near.
My heart tells me to hang on to him and to be near him and to never let go. But my head tells me to keep my distance. To let him figure it out. If he wants to work out these issues alone, then I should let him do that. If he wants to stay married and work it out together, then let's do it! But if not... then not.
What should I do? Listen to the heart or the head?
Oh boy, marriage is not a walk in the park...
*****
Lady, I am so so sorry you're going through this.
You have to let go. Give him space. (ALL THE SPACE HE FUCKING WANTS.)
Your husband seems to be having some kind of early-life crisis, and you can't help him through it. Not if he's telling you he's not sure he wants to be married.
Therapy might help. Meds might help. Quitting his job and moving to fucking Florida and becoming a surf bum might help. He needs to figure it out on his own.
In my experience, men take a lot of time to work through their shit. He'll either come back to you or he won't.... And that sucks. But clinging will only make you feel clingy and him feel suffocated.
Kelly Mittendorf by Tak Sugita for Razor Red Magazine via Fashion Gone Rogue
What ESB said. Which is so tough to do, but kinda the only real option.
ReplyDeleteWith one caveat: protect yourself. If you had future plans (house buying+children), you probably had joint savings... so if, to use ESB's phrase, he wants to move to Florida and be a surf bum, he shouldn't go through your joint savings to do that unless you actually agree that that's an option.
My husband went through a similar crisis, and I agree - space might be what he needs and he needs to know you're okay with holding off on all of the plans you had. Maybe try being spontaneous. I started randomly suggesting we just go do things like we used to do before we were married and had responsibility and were planning for a family. I also encouraged him to explore what made him happy before and made sure he got out of the house and hung out with friends and really just figured out how to relax. Talk to him about his job and if it's affecting him this much... he may need to quit, and you need to be there to support his decision and even encourage it.
ReplyDeletei agree with this - you need to give him some space but he needs to know you are there for him. i kind of freaked out / brokedown after our wedding- questioning everything and everyone in my life and what helped me get through it quicker was that my husband was awesome and there for me.
Deletethere were days when he just let me wallow b/c he knew i needed that, but he also helped me to figure out what was really wrong (work issues + family issues), he challenged me to find new interests to make up for what i felt was missing in other areas of my life, and through it all he kept reminding me he loved me and was there for me. i honestly think that helped me get through it faster - his actions reminded me why i married him in the first place and made me sure of him when i didn't feel sure of anything.
this feels silly to say, but he also gave me a big long hug everyday even when i didn't want him to. hugs are a good thing!
don't give up!
I'm so sorry. Everything that esb said is right though. As someone who doesn't want any help when I'm going through a tough patch, I totally agree, back off. It really doesn't sound as if this is about you.
ReplyDeleteSo sorry you're going through such a rough time. Maybe seeing a therapist yourself can help you through this with more clarity. You will get through this stronger. Sending you all the best!
ReplyDeleteI'm a little surprised by ESB's response and subsequent responses. Give him space, for sure, but don't give up on him! Give him space that lets him know how much you care, how much you support him, and how much you want to figure this shit out together (together, because you are actually married, not just dating). Just keep remembering that it's most likely not about you. If you get upset and freak out about stuff that will surely push him away.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Especially the part about figuring things out together.
DeleteGive him a hug, tell him you love him and that you are there for him. Tell him you are giving him space to figure things out and that you support him. Don't just give him space without talking about it - he may see it as you giving up on him. If he's having difficulties organizing his thoughts and feelings, suggest that he write them down or see a therapist.
I also like the idea of inviting him to do things you used to do before getting married - going out, being spontaneous.
I completely agree with the above, with an addition. Offer couples counseling - which he may not be into- and if he's not, go to counseling yourself. You need support to feel valued while he's working this out and he might benefit from individual counseling, so you can set an example for him to follow when he's ready.
DeleteI agree with Katie. I think you should tell him he needs to be in therapy ASAP. As his wife, and the person who promised to be there through thick and thin - you have the right to demand he not sit around waiting for life to fix itself - but to get help now. But honestly the fact that you're already accepting that your marriage could end over this, tells me maybe he isn't the only one doing a bit of freaking out. It sounds like he needs to be in therapy and you both need to be in couples therapy. Being an adult and being in a marriage isn't something most people just know how to do and do well. There's nothing wrong with needing guidance. There's also nothing wrong with deciding the guy you've been with since you were a child, is no longer the guy you want to be with forever - even if you married him.
ReplyDeleteGiving space does not equal giving up!
ReplyDeleteIf he's under a lot of pressure at work to perform and then feels like he has to meet expectations of house buying and then bedroom expectations of child making...it could just all be way too much at once; performance anxiety.
Back off on the house, baby making timeline...and phone calls and texts and "what are you thinking?" conversations. Get busy doing things that you enjoy doing for yourself, and get yourself to a therapist/counselor so you have someone to talk to who isn't family or friends.
What I see as the most important part of this, Big Daddy ESB and almost all the others, glossed over. "But the not so far future is happening now." Are you buying a house, now? Is a baby on the way, now? If not, back off the house buying plans and baby making plans and just take some time to be married. Take some time to let him navigate through his stressful job. Take some time to be supportive. If he's like any guy I know, he'll want you there and positive, but not there and questioning. You can do this, and he can too, with you by his side as a team.
ReplyDeleteLet us know how it goes.
agreed, and what the other ladies have said - it sounds more important focus on fun stuff right now. that might even mean exploring other careers. whenever my husband is in the grumps I've learned to back off but be available so when he is ready to talk I'm all nonchalantly there to say "oh hmm? is something bothering you?"
DeleteBig Daddy ESB!
Yes exactly what ESB said, and this is why--from a physiological perspective, men have testosterone and women don't, and in order for men to recover from stress they need literal, actual space. Testosterone is rebuilt from rest, lying around doing nothing (away from stimulation, i.e. people). Women don't typically understand this because their bodies don't require the rebuild of testosterone; they instead need to release oxytocin to feel better, which is achieved through bonding with others (i.e. your urge to talk, hold on to him).
ReplyDeleteBoth women and men produce testosterone and oxytocin. This is not an explanation.
DeleteThis is total bunk. Yeesh.
DeleteSeriously. Beware of those who come wielding pseudoscience.
DeleteThis is silly! And a perfect example of, "a little knowledge is dangerous"
DeleteErroneous on all accounts.
DeleteThis is not science. Also, science has shown that not-straight women (i.e., bi and lesbian women) have more testosterone than straight women. Not all women are the same, which complicates your already wrong complicates.
Deletedid that feel kind of degrading and misogynistic to anyone else? silly girls, here's a syllogistic fallacy (or, science, whatever..)!
DeleteDoes he love his job? Or is he putting himself through the stress of keeping it because he feels like he needs to be able to afford a house/kids/the life you two envisioned? If it's the latter...then for the sake of the sanity of the person you love, please tell him that those things can wait!! Get him OUT of that shitty stressful situation that is unraveling him and making him question everything. Sub-lease your apartment, sell your shit, and get the eff out of there. Reconnect with each other, live simply, and worry less about what society tells you is the measure of success (good job, nice home/car, etc.) and be FREE!
ReplyDeleteI think this is pretty normal for guys to go through in the first 5 or so years out of school. Up through college, everything is pretty laid out for you, and if you land a job right out of school, you keep walking that same path, but let's say your career isn't what you thought it would be? Suddenly, for the first time in your life, you're in uncharted waters. It can be scary, but you guys are not alone.
ReplyDeleteAgreed with ESB; sounds like space is needed. But, if you want to make things work, make sure he knows you support him and his decisions. That you love him even if he has to leave his job and you put off buying a house or starting a family for another 5 years while he figues out what he wants to do. And if things don't improve, look into counseling.
Oh man, surprise this guy with a vacation. He sounds like he can use the relaxation. And don't use it as a chance to analyze every aspect of this --- go somewhere away from his job, your home, your plans, and just relax and have fun together... It sounds like he (and you) need it.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth -- I have quite a few friends who really freaked out right before they moved into babymaking stage (some waiting right up until their wife was already pregnant), to varying degrees and in varying ways (thank God your husband doesn't sound like he's out every night trying to reclaim his youth, that one isn't pretty to watch)... but they all turned out okay. I hope he snaps out of it but I do agree with everyone who says that hovering isn't the answer.
Therapy.
ReplyDeleteAnd for what it's worth--I fareeeaaaked out at the prospect of buying a house. And I'm a lady. I just needed time and space to get on board, without anyone pushing me.
Sorry - that sounds terrible!
ReplyDeleteI semi-agree. I'm a fan of space with boundaries. So I think it's perfectly acceptable to say "Look, I know you're going through a rough time and you don't have to talk to me about every little detail, but you at least have to tell me that you are in a bad place and don't feel like talking about it".
Being completely hands off and shut out could end up making you feel resentful, so I think your partner at least needs to acknowledge that something is happening and it isn't really you. It's possible that once he realizes you aren't putting any pressure on him that he'll actually want to talk about it. Or he just doesn't want to talk but you guys can at least keep the air clear between you. Not saying ANYTHING runs the risk of everything getting worse.
I have to ask. Is he sleeping with someone else? Or thinking about it?
ReplyDeleteNo you do not have to fucking ask that.
DeleteI did. I really did. No point putting one's head in the sand.
DeleteIt's good to give him some space but it's not unreasonable to expect him to be able to communicate his needs. Try having a conversation about that, and try to get him to spell it out for you: you're not a mind-reader. Also, think a lot about what you need and don't be afraid to state it. I have a couple friends with drama queens for husbands who have over time internalized the idea that their needs come second. I don't think you're doing that here, but keep an eye on it. Hang in there, and keep us posted.
ReplyDeleteIs there any chance of him finding a new job? I only ask because I'm normally a well adjusted, pretty happy person, but I worked in a job where I honestly started to believe that every day was the worst day of my life. I distinctly remember asking myself "is this really all we have to live for, this on repeat?" And totally remember that "whose life is this" feeling. When you're in a hole like that, the thought of house hunting or babies or, hell, even the desire to see and talk to anyone on a daily basis feels like a monumentally impossible thing. I just.. existed. Maybe his job was just the trigger for a larger depression issue.
ReplyDeleteI agree with him talking to someone, ideally professional therapy, but I have no idea how you can actually achieve that. I can easily suggest therapy to others, but I doubt I'd be able to talk my husband into seeing someone. Above all, best of luck.
i had that feeling, too, with a former job. so much anxiety & self-doubt, which of course led to binge drinking and more. i can't believe my husband (then my boyfriend) stuck with me ... i was a wreck.
DeleteAgreed! If you're not happy in your job having someone else wanting to buy a house and make babies all of which cost loads of money may make the unhappy job more unhappy because staying in unhappy job that brings in the $ is the only way for house and babies to happen. UGH.
Delete<3
DeleteWell shit, guys. I posted that anonymously for fear of being called stupid.
Delete17 beats - I hope you've moved on to a more fulfilling job! I medicated with starvation/binge eating and nearly constant sleep.
Original Poster - your mention of him always being tired really hits home for that reason.
I second (third, forth) the job thing. I had a terrible, awful job for awhile and it made me hatch a plan to break up with my long-term boyfriend, sell everything I owned, and solo hike the AT. In my head, this was 100% legitimate and would solve all of my problems. Luckily, a very good girlfriend took me out to lunch and asked me to do her a favor: find a new job, wait six months, and see how I felt.
DeleteI felt better. I married my boyfriend, kept my stuff, and regained a rational thought process.
Terrible jobs can cause unhappiness and angst that seeps into every facet of your life without realizing it.
I'm so sorry you're going through this rough patch. Hang in there and keep your head up.
No way Anon, not stupid at all.
DeleteMy husband had a breakdown as soon as we got back from our honeymoon. He'd hated his job for so long, and after having 5 weeks away and clearing his mind, he went back and within 24 hours was a complete mess. He was desperate to start trying for kids asap and I think that combined just made him feel he was stuck in this shitty bottomless pit... heartbreaking to watch and to hear.
The kids thing was completely scrapped (I was the one pushing to wait) and we spent a week coming up with new job ideas. Which included him stacking shelves to make ends meet if necessary (and even me doing it too if that is what was needed).
Cut a long story short - 3 years on, he owns a very successful but rewarding business and I'm just about to have our first baby.
Terrible jobs can taint every good thing around you.
Hang in there.
Hmmmmm...a hellish job does have a way of spilling over into the rest of your life - you are there for a good majority of your waking day. It becomes especially troubling when you feel trapped in your job because of financial obligations. If you can, you should take the house and babies off the table and encourage him to open up about what he had envisioned for his life. Are you financially independent? Are you pressuring him for a life that you envision for yourself? My brother split with a long-term girlfriend and one of the issues was this life that she expected him to deliver. She wanted to live a cushy life, and she expected him to be delivering that on a big shiny platter!
ReplyDeleteLet him know that you can give him the time and space, but that it isn't easy for you (that reminder is good so it sinks into the back of his mind so he hopefully realizes to not string it out for eternity); and if it's true tell him the kids and house can wait and that it's him you love, not the life he can provide.
Put the house hunting on hold and take a vacation! Sounds like you guys deserve it...
ReplyDeleteI feel for you...my husband is dealing with major stress (like, the most I have ever seen him handle in the 10+ years I have known him) stemming from being a new grad student, but he also has a family history of depression and anxiety. It's clearly manifesting in him now, and it's a bitch. Our marriage has been rocky lately too.
ReplyDeleteThe HILARIOUS kicker is that we (very specifically) moved back to Florida so he could surf more and did it cure anything? HELL NO (just thought it was funny/ironic that ESB mentioned this because it so did not work for us, though I could have called that the moment he suggested it as a 'solution').
Therapy. Therapy, therapy, therapy: if he's open to it. Still trying to gator-wrestle M into going for more than one session (I think a lot of dudes hear "You are a loser" when their significant others say "Why not try therapy?")...but the single session he DID go to opened the floodgates. I am a huge believer in having professional help. See if you can convince him. Have his back. Go together. Make it about support and not shaming. A mid-midlife crisis is surprisingly common....
yeah my quarter life crisis was impressive. It all resulted in some super awesome changes that led me to meeting my now fiance, but it was a bitch to get through.
Delete@Kelsi Wow. I pulled that surfing thing out of thin air.
DeleteLove him. Let him know you love him. Give him space, but don't stop loving and being there for him.
ReplyDeleteThis is a bit old so maybe you've read it already, but this is a really moving (I think) NYT piece about pretty much the same thing.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fashion/02love.html?pagewanted=all
Kylie, thank you. This makes me feel like so much less of an asshole.
DeleteSometimes when the all ladies chime in with their talk-it-out bullshit I start to doubt myself....
Wow, that article is amazing! Such a different approach than you often hear preached to women nowadays. An seriously, I think this could probably be applied to an marital tiff even the happiest of couples experience.
DeleteMy boyfriend just had one of these! It was hell! But I think we are coming through the worst of it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with a lot of this. Space is good for your sanity- if you CAN pull back a bit, and let him come to you, it helps. Take a class, join a book club, whatever you need to do.
Maybe just keep talking AT him (gently). I read some relationship books during our rough patch and then would just talk about the things I read. At least with my feller, he's always listening and reflecting internally, so I'd just be like, "hey I read this thing that said this. Maybe this would be a good book for you." and things like, "I'll give you your space but I also believe you can work on your own stuff and still have a relationship with me- you don't need to get up on a mountain and live alone to change so I hope you talk to me when you want to." Have faith for him. "I believe in our life. I believe in our marriage. I believe in you and your ability to figure out what you want."
The linked Modern Love article makes a good point. This isn't really about you, in a weird way. This is about, he got married and he's still got other parts of himself that aren't fulfilled, and that's a different life path issue and he wants to push that blame onto marriage.