Lady girl,
You were so helpful with my last question I have a new one for you.
I'm getting married this winter - 30 people, evening ceremony, dinner at a lovely restaurant after. I've got two awesome photographers hired. The dinner at this restaurant with booze and gratuity is working out to be $200/person.
Do I feed my photographers with us in the private dining room for an extra $400, or do I banish them to the bar to have a normal dinner at some point? Both options seem socially awkward. Plus, while we'd like photos of toasts and things, it isn't like two hours of us eating needs to be extensively documented for posterity.
Snarky etiquette advice appreciated.
*****
I emailed a couple of my fave wedding photographers. Here's their four cents...
from jamie of Rad + In Love:
There is nothing wrong with giving the photographers a separate meal as long as it is DECENT. (No brown bag lunches, people). Just let them know the plan ahead of time, talk to them about the sitch, find out if they have any dietary restrictions. Also talk to them about the dining schedule. We always inform our clients that we like to eat while everyone else is just sitting down to eat. Who wants 100 photos of their family shoving food into their mouths? (Don't get me started on the time that the caterer barked at us that "staff eats when everyone else is done eating." Great, like right when the first dance is scheduled? Perfect sense.)
from cara (aka Peonies) of Lillian & Leonard:
Shit no, you do not pay $400 to feed your photographers. You ask them to make sure that they're there for the toasts and you tell them to go to the bar while you and your partner are eating (you do not want photos of you eating) and to order whatever they would like to eat and drink. Don't tell them they can only have a starter and don't make them pay for their own drinks, those are both mean things to do to someone who has been working for you all day.
Oh and let them know before the wedding that you've organised this so that they don't assume that their only option is to go and sit in their car to eat cereal bars and service station sandwiches.
Self-portrait of Peonies via her blog
At our wedding, our caterer offered to make separate boxed dinners for our photog/band/etc. They ate the same things that we did, but the caterer just packaged them up all cute like for our folks to eat when they had an opportunity.
ReplyDeleteI like your caterer. So many of them seem to resent feeding vendors, like 'WE'RE not eating right now, why the fuck should they?'
DeleteYes, they were incredible. Not only was the food good, but they were kind and gave incredible service. I feel as though caterers should be expected to help out in this situation. In fact, they were the ones who suggested this to us. They wanted to make sure everyone got fed.
DeleteThis is a real cultural difference between the the States and the UK. Here, vendors are never provided with a meal, in my experience. Kind of like how I take my own lunch to the office, I assume they bring their own food, and, like you said, eat it in the car.
ReplyDeletethat's not true, I'm in the UK and my photographer has it in her contract to be provided with a meal, which I think is absolutely reasonable. What I don't know is I'm supposed to seat her at a table or if she eats off to the side somewhere?!
DeleteI've been wedding photographer in the UK & the US & I've found that my clients over here (UK) are much more thoughtful about providing me with a meal, which is much appreciated. I've only had one set of clients over here not do feed me, while it was more common back in the states. Wedding photography is hard physical labor and often we're working for longer than 8 hours carrying all of our gear on our backs with no frige to store our food in like you would have at an office. When my clients feed me I know that they appreciate all the hard work I'm putting in and it makes me so very happy.
DeleteWe are in the UK and provided our photographer with a meal, seated at a table with our guests. Same as my sister did for Lauren who took her photos.
DeleteAMEN. Cara, everything you always say, makes sense. x
ReplyDeleteThanks Chloe.
DeleteAlso a wedding photog here, but up in Canada, it may sound awful, but I do expect to get food of some sort.
ReplyDeleteGenerally I've been working my butt off since 8am or earlier and while I do pound back granola bars, fruit bars, gatorade and rockstar drinks while I'm driving between venues, in all likelihood the only time I get to pee or put something half decent in my mouth to chew is when dinner gets served to the guests.
I DON'T expect a full course, full sized meal, I probably won't have time to eat it all, but a lot of venues will give out "vendor meals" which are usually a smaller portion of what everyone is getting and generally includes all the courses on one plate. They're also cheaper. You could also probably skip the salad or soup course since I'm generally trying to load up on meat, veggies, potatoes and bread.
If you're having speeches during the meal, your photographer will be not eating while a speech is happening, and also not eating every time the glasses get tinkled and you guys kiss. Help them out and get their food to them first, when your head table is being fed.
Please no bag lunches, and don't make us sit in another room, it's kinda mean and we like to be near the action so we can document it.
I totally disagree about being in another room, we do not want to be where guests will stop and chat to us and where we can't sit back and properly relax for half an hour. If we're still 'on duty' then it's not a proper break and we're not recharged for the evening reception.
DeleteWe always make sure we know when the speeches & cake cutting are going to be and make sure that we're around for them but we NEED some time off and that doesn't mean sitting outside in the corridor between the reception room and the toilets where every single guest who needs to pee will stop to ask us if we shoot Canon or Nikon (true story).
Yeah I'm generally being sat at a guest table, which can be difficult, they want to ask lots of questions and it's usually the "misfits" table where the leftover guests go, which makes it rough. I've never experienced the way you describe it Cara!! Sounds like a dream!! Maybe I'll have to talk with my couples about that idea.
DeleteI think I could write a treatise too ;)
I'm with Cara! It's great to have a little break, and space to just recharge for a second.
DeleteI could write a treatise about this. Clearly.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you just ask your photographers what they would like? or if they have any suggestions?
ReplyDeleteTotally agree about wanting to be in another room.
ReplyDeleteIt's sweet that you want to put me on a table with your guests but that means I have to make polite chit-chat with them when all I really want to do is sit and gaze vacantly into the distance for half an hour.
Also I can function without a meal but me after 8 hours photography + a service station sandwich is a poor imitator of me after 8 hours photography + a decent dinner.
oh TOTALLY i don't want to chit chat on my only break!
ReplyDeletei should mention, if you have lovely picnic style brown bag lunches planned for EVERYone then i am sure THAT would be lovely.
I don't get this custom of feeding your photographers. I don't get fed each day I work, nor do I receive free alcohol. Truly not being snarky for the sake of it, just confused as to why this idea/habit exists.
ReplyDeleteAt work, you also have a lunch hour and are permitted to take a break and leave. As a wedding vendor, you don't have that option and you are working through a meal time. In the food service and wedding industry it is customary because it is a different work environment that doesn't allow the same flexibility as an office job. I'm a caterer, and we always expect to feed the vendors a plate of food.
DeleteDifferent Anon then above.
DeleteAlso if you're a wedding vendor and you're there for the free alcohol you're probably not a great wedding vendor and you're definitely in it for the wrong reasons.
I'll have a glass of wine with dinner but that's usually it.
To the first anon, surely you can schedule a break time. Other commenters are saying to eat during the bridal party's meal. Can't that be arranged in contract?
DeleteI think it's expected that the photographers will at least stay on the premises (at the bar or another room or whatever) as opposed to taking off for an hour and going somewhere else for lunch/dinner. It's more like a production job, like on a set, than an office job in that regard. Any fashion set, film set, etc. always provides food for all the employees. I think it would be very poor form not to feed the people working at your wedding! My caterers were awesome and charged us 1/2 price for vendors' meals. I'm American, by the way.
Deletei'm on the fence about this one.
ReplyDeleteside 1: i'm paying you $200-800/hour and you expect me to feed you and booze you?? really? if you feed and booze everyone you hire, you're looking at, what, 10-20 people? Sure you should get a break, but to expect to be fed seems a bit much. why can't you just bring your own food to work like everyone else?
side 2: seems rude not to offer something. they are at some venue that doesn't offer alternatives probably and they can't just go out for dinner and come back. plus, if you're doing a buffet style dinner, how much does it really matter?
I dunno about the 10-20 people part. The only other wedding day vendor who is probably working just as long and hard as the photographer is the wedding planner/day of co-ordinator. Also the DJ is generally there through dinner. At a minimum that's 2 vendor meals, at a max, maybe 6, oh, maybe the priest/pastor/clergy person... so 7.
DeleteAlso lets not get into a discussion that a photographer isn't actually getting paid $200-$800/hour. Yes they work at the actual wedding for 10-12 hours or more but behind the scenes before and after the wedding tack on another 1-3 hours per shooting hour and that's most likely underestimating.
not to mention crazy expensive equipment, taxes, advertising, and all kinds of other overhead. if only!
Deleteproduct, my car and gas, a salary so I can buy food. blah blah blah
Deletebut all of that is true for anyone who is self-employed and does not get fed by their employers. i'm not sure that has anything to do with why one should or should not being offering a meal to wedding vendors.
Deletei don't think it's surprising that first time brides don't know if they are supposed to feed their photographers and don't know that they want a real break, not a table at the wedding reception. seriously, i'm planning my own wedding and this is all news to me.
I shoot them and I didn't know about the "real break in another room" thing so no worries!
DeleteBut the costs of doing business mentioned above of course have nothing to do with being fed, that was just in response to the part that photographers make $200-$800/hour thing.
Also, I think as most or all photographers who've weighed in here will probably tell you, they discuss this with their couples or it's in their contract.
If yours hasn't, ask them! You'll look super awesome for inquiring what they'd prefer to do and if they have any food allergies.
well said. :)
Deletewhat if you're hiring a photographer for 5 hours?
DeleteI would never expect to be fed, or even have a food break, if I was only working 5 hours.
DeleteYes, 5 hours is a fairly short amount of time for a wedding and I wouldn't expect to be fed for that, but again, talk with your photographer!
DeletePeople, the question isn't whether or not you feed your vendors it is weather you feed them a $200 meal. You do NOT need to feed them a $200 meal.
ReplyDeleteBut.
FEED YOUR VENDORS, LADIES. You will be the shittiest bride ever if you don't.
!
DeleteUmm no. Dont roll everyone into one pile and direct a rule. I paid a photog for 3 hours work. Where I live, breaks for any workers aren't required til after four hours. So no. I will not pay a 3 hour contractor.
DeleteI get why people are asking why they have to feed their photographers--after all, I have to bring a bag lunch for myself because there's not enough time to go get something. However, I still think that you should feed your photographers because they have a very tough job and besides, where would they even store their dinner if they did bring one?
ReplyDeletePart of my contract with my photographer was that she and her second shooter be fed dinner, which was good because I don't think I would have even thought of it if she hadn't brought it up. She told me her dietary restrictions and my caterer made her a vendor dinner which cost a lot less.
A question: Are there any other vendors who should be fed at a wedding?
DJ, Wedding Co-ordinator.
Deletevideographer, band, anyone hanging out for the entire reception.
DeleteI used to work as an event manager at a venue, it is amazing how many couples don't even think to feed the vendors. I would typically review the seating chart and then ask if there were assigned seats for the vendors (if they weren't listed), and how often that was met with a blank stare.
And if you don't want them mixing with your guests, you can always ask to have a special plate made up for them. Regulars in the industry get it and we try to take care of each other.
I think it is classy and nice to ask your caterer to prepare something simple, cheap& good for your staff. Happy staff = good service = happy guests = good party !
ReplyDeleteAmen!
DeleteFirstly, I can't believe the snarky comments from the people who think it's ridiculous to feed your photographer. It is NOT the same as going to your work and expecting to be fed - get a grip! I think sometimes brides get so carried away with their own self-importance they forget what is essentially a) common sense and b) good manners.
ReplyDeleteWhen we got married, we were initially thinking of having our photographer at one of the tables, but then realised that she probably wanted a break and probably wouldn't enjoy having to make small talk with our friends (they can be an acquired taste!). Instead, we told her to order whatever she wanted from the bar menu and she had a little room with a sofa where she could eat and have some peace and quiet and not be bothered by guests asking her silly questions.
And no, we didn't have loads of money to spend - we just appreciated that she was working a really long day, that she needed, like everyone, to eat, and was entitled to have a break - no matter how much she was being paid. Note: just because you're paying someone for a service doesn't mean you treat them poorly.
Finally - I'm in the UK, and I disagree with the earlier comment about the cultural difference. It comes down to the length of time your photographer is at your wedding - I've been to weddings where the photographer hasn't expected food because they're not there for the full day, but ours was there from 11am til 10pm. The girl needed to eat!
i think this might be the only snarky comment.
Deletehahaha, Lindsay is right!
DeleteHaha! I thought the exact opposite. Totally agree with Lula.
DeleteI'm a wedding photographer in CT and have had celiac disease for 12 years. So meals are something I bring up and try to talk to my couples about. I used to bring my own dinner out of fear that the caterer wouldn't know what gluten free was. I squished my meal, lost it, had it go bad in killer heat, and it never made it to dinner time.
ReplyDeleteNow my couples know how sick I could get if my meal wasn't gluten free and actually are my advocates even before I contact the caterer.
When I get a good meal, I always thank the couple- it really does mean the world to me. I also thank them because I'm more fueled and have had a moment to recompose myself.
So how in the world do you handle the "real break in another room" issue if you aren't having a sit-down full-service meal? If everyone is sitting down to eat at the same time, it makes sense that the photographer will take a break then, too. But so many weddings don't have sit-down meals. I have been to quite a few weddings where they served heavy hors d'oeuvres or a large buffet of finger foods or simply had a dessert reception. In those situation, the action doesn't really stop while everyone sits down to eat - people will be grazing throughout the reception. I definitely think you should feed your vendors, but when you aren't having a sit-down meal, is it okay not to do the scheduled "real break" in another room for the photographer to eat and to just ask them to graze on finger foods throughout the night just as the guests are doing (and to use their own discretion to eat when things are slow and they aren't missing key shots)?
ReplyDeleteI think as long as you're thinking about feeding your photographer you're so completely wonderful in their eyes that it won't matter. It would be nice to let them know when a good time to take 20 minutes or so to themselves might be but other than that you're already probably on their golden list just by offering them food.
DeleteI just had my wedding and we had a "grazing" meal...I have no idea when my photographer took a break, but it was probably around the time most people started to really eat. Share your day-of timeline with your photographer and they will figure out the best time to break, or create a time for them and TALK WITH THEM about it. I firmly believe that asking your photographer to graze along with you guests is NOT ok -- I think that anyone working is entitled to a break from everything. You need time to recharge and breath. Wouldn't you want the same if you were working? I just saw some of the photos from my wedding, and they are incredible. I can't imagine any "key" moments that went missing.
DeleteDear Original Poster,
ReplyDeleteI am trying to have the exact same wedding as you. Wintertime, very intimate, delicious dinner at a restaurant. BUT... I haven't figured out the ceremony part yet.
Where are you doing your ceremony?? I am curious! We're going to be in a cold place and prob not using a church... would love to hear any bright ideas.
This is my favorite type of wedding. With 30 guests its so versatile, you have so many options! You should seriously consider doing it outside, especially if you plan on having a super-short ceremony. Guests would stand and you could wear some awesome fur coat thing. If you haven't picked your restaurant look for ones with potential ceremony space. Or check out museums, wineries/breweries, theaters, art galleries...
DeleteOkay, so maybe this is snarky I guess, but it surprises me that so many people are talking not just about feeding vendors, but also about providing alcohol, too. I completely get it that vendors deserve a break and a meal. I get it that they shouldn't be expected to work right through dinner. BUT, it just kind of strikes me as . . . unprofessional? . . . to drink on the job. Maybe it is because I work in a pretty conservative corporate field, but it is pretty much unimaginable for me to drink during the work day. Socializing with coworkers after work? Sure. Even at a client dinner, maybe. I am absolutely sure that photographers can enjoy a few glasses of wine and still produce gorgeous photos. I just find it odd that anyone would be expected to provide alcohol for a vendor while that person is working.
ReplyDeleteBy 'buy their own drinks' I meant soft drinks, tea, coffee. I don't expect the bride and groom to provide me with alcohol and I don't as a rule drink on the job. I've accepted a glass of wine or a beer when it's been offered with our meal, which sometimes it is, and it's very much appreciated after 6+ hours of working, but it's by no means something that I would ever *expect*.
DeleteHowever, it bugs me that there's not a wedding band out there that doesn't specify that they're provided with drinks all night long. When you're talking 8 band members for 4 hours, that's a lot of drinks. If you're spending god knows what getting the band nicely hammered, maybe it's not too much of a stretch to feed someone who's working for 2-3 times as long?
YES to the wedding band thing.
DeleteOur photographer (in the UK) mentioned upfront that he'd like feeding so we very happily fed him. At a table with guests as the meal was in a marquee, it was cold outside and there was no other room available. He was part of our wedding, took brilliant photos and was there for hours and hours (far longer than his contract) so to us of course he was welcome to eat/drink what he liked.
The band (4 of them) showed up after dinner and demanded feeding - apparently it was in their contract. We hadn't realised they'd need food; thankfully no-one mentioned a word of this to me/us at the time and they were fed left-overs (which went down well by all accounts!). They did a brilliant job of getting everyone dancing and I loved them on the day so I don't really mind but demanding food after dinner time does seem a bit cheeky.
The photographer having a glass of wine with dinner to be socially polite at a wedding is completely different in my books then a photographer who is going to the bar and ordering themselves alcohol all night long.
DeletePersonally I wouldn't want guests questioning my ability to take good pictures because I've been drinking or for the couple to come back to me and say "You were drinking heavily at the wedding and we think your work was affected."
However, and a BIG however, I have had some couples and families come and tell me that they want me to stay and enjoy myself at their wedding and be there as their guest and, when I'm done shooting to order whatever I like from the bar and relax. ONLY then will I have more than a glass at dinner but I'm not getting loaded on their dime.
I know, it's all weird and NOT a normal work situation, and NOT what you'd do in a conservative work environment, but working weddings is not a normal work environment.
Most photographers who love shooting weddings will tell you they feel it's an honour and privilege to be doing what they do. I can almost guarantee that the same photographers will tell you that they do not expect to be served alcohol.
I still feel bad about this. I didn't offer to feed our talented, wonderful photos. Never even crossed my mind until months after our wedding when I saw it on a blog like this. How did I miss the etiquette? Gaw, I wish our photographers would have said something in the contract or beforehand.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I've worked on sets, on projects, at client's workplaces for 12 hours before and always packed in, so I don't think that it's a universal, assumed thing to include vendors meals. I'm not saying I was in the right -- heck no, I should have offered them plates of food or told the caterers to do so -- but I don't think it's one of those 'obvious to wedding outsiders' things.
I've worked with some photographers who don't pack their own snacks or bottles of water or gatorade and I have NO idea how they do it.
DeleteESB strikes gold again. Thanks for the straight-from-the-pros advice. Good to know getting a break from the action eating at the bar will be a nice break rather than a banishment. I arranged with the venue that they will both have seats reserved at the bar and can go order whatever they like off the normal menu (ie $20-30 meal) and it will be added to our tab at the end of the night.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne, we're doing our ceremony in a 17th century chapel that's been turned into a museum. It is tiny, lovely, and fits both my future mother in law's request for a church ceremony and our wish to actually have a civil ceremony (since you can have whoever you like do the service). We're likely having a justice of the peace as officiant, or convincing one of our friends to do it. We thought about doing a short outdoor ceremony in the mountains. We decided this was more trouble than its worth. Especially since two of our guests will be heavily pregnant and another guest just had a hip replaced that making them stand in the snow even briefly would be cruel and unusual.
Photographers will be fed appropriately, I'll make sure they send their thanks your way ESB.