Dear ESB,
I've been a fan of the site since I got engaged, but have considered myself lucky not to need your guidance until now. But now I've hit a roadblock, so I'm turning to the wisest blogger I know.
Anyway, a little background: my fiance and I live in NYC, we're both creative types (he's a writer, I do music PR) and we are getting married in February. We initially wanted something really small, but because I'm the eldest of three sisters, my mom has sort of co-opted the whole thing and it's gotten a bit out of hand. I know she must be feeling many strange feelings, and if she needs this to be a big fancy wedding, I understand. We are an easygoing couple, so it hasn't been a huge source of contention. Plus, my folks are footing the bill, so we are very thankful and willing to follow their lead.
The feel is Boardwalk Empire/Fancy haunted house? I guess? Prohibition era glam party bourbon bar? The wedding is also Orthodox Jewish, so we're beholden to all the traditions and confines related to the faith even though my fiance and I are secular and eat at Momofuku and have tattoos. You get the picture.
Everything was moving along fine until I got my dress! I am a curvy girl, so we ended up going with a custom dress by a fairly well-known designer. I have lost a lot of weight since we ordered (56 lbs yeahhhh) and yesterday I had my first fitting, meaning I actually saw the dress for the first time. Everyone cried. EVERYONE -- including the sales staff and all the seamstresses and my mom and the wedding planner, but I just sort of stood in front of the mirror in shock. It's not that the dress isn't gorgeous, because the fabric is breathtaking (platinum threading in ivory lace, white sequins, it's actually kind of 1970's glam) and the body of the dress is very flattering, but it is just so totally modest!! I was always on board with having to cover my shoulders, and since my back is tattooed, I knew I would have to camouflage that too, but the way everything has come together, I feel like a Hasidic cast member on Little House on the Prairie!
It is just so totally divorced from my personal style (80's goth-meets-UWS shrink? A lot of sheer blouses, bold lips, skinny pants and over-accessorizing) that I can't imagine wearing it on what is supposed to be a special day. I'm not allowed to lower the neckline or really make very many alterations at all, because of the modesty thing, but I just feel so totally un-sexy in the dress!
Help! Is it all in my head? Do I just need to be thankful and know that my fiance will love it because it is kind of silly and just live with that? Is this normal dress regret?
I have attached a full picture of the dress, but you can't post it because it is TOP SECRETTTTTT but you can post the photo of my back because you can't see the rest of the dress ahhhh getting married is hard.
Thanks in advance,
Laura Ingalls "Help Me, I'm Drowning In Lace" Wilder
ps. please ignore the white chicken feather hairpiece, it is NOT HAPPENING
*****
I don't even know you, and I know the Laura Ingalls dress is NOT. YOU.
Tell your mother thankyouverymuch but I can't wear that, go for mimosas with your BFF and (I can't believe I'm saying this) ask those damn ladies at Kleinfeld to help you find a killer, curvy, Probihition Era-modest dress.
Helpful Hint: F*ck lace.
Photo of Laura Ingalls Wilder via Pamela Smith Hill
How about getting a different dress for the reception?
ReplyDeleteI don't know much about Jewish weddings or synagogues - do you need your arms covered or just shoulders?
ReplyDeleteCould you find a dress YOU like and just wear a shawl during the ceremony?
it sounds like you are already making a lot of compromises to keep people happy (which is not, btw, a criticism. I strongly believe in compromise for sanity's sake) so you should at least be 100% on board with your dress.
ReplyDeleteCan you either alter this dress to suit you & get a bolero/jacket/shawl for the ceremony OR get a whole new dress (perhaps un-modest) and then do jacket/bolero for ceremony over that?
Or: Mormons also have strict rules about modesty in the temple. Lots of Mormon websites out there with great dresses-- and inexpensive since Mormon brides are usually young & not making the big bucks.
yeahhh rogue mormon here, to the rescue:
ReplyDeletesome of these are actually pretty cute
you sound like you have a generally awesome attitude about the whole thing so good for you! As for the dress ... if it's a custom made designer gown it's probably not so easy to just scrap it and start over. ESB --that's lazy advice! I think if you shortened the sleeves just a little (or had them fitted closer to your arms to alleviate the wing effect?)and changed the fabric of the bodice to something other than lace (but keep the lace for the skirt becasue it's gorge) it will make a huge difference. And may be you can add some funky accessories to make it more you? The reality is you can't change the modest part so you have to work with what you have. GOOD LUCK!
ReplyDeletedefinitely do something different with the sleeves, I'm usually a fan of lace dresses, but not when it looks like doilies... could you give the designer a picture of a dress that you totally LOVE and ask them to do tweaks to bring it closer to that, meet somewhere in the middle?
ReplyDeleteotherwise I second the bolero/shawl idea so you can take it off for the reception
I don't know anything about Jewish weddings, but is there any way you can wear a somewhat less modest dress with, say, a fabulous blazer for the ceremony? Or could you change into a second dress for the reception?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, something's gotta give here, because no girl should feel miserable about her wedding dress.
Kleinfeld?! From what I've seen on Say Yes To The Dress, you won't be able to get out of there without spending (at least) 10K, which makes me nauseous, especially with it being Dress #2. Since your first dress was custom-made, you know your measurements. Send them along to an Etsy vendor - if you really want to start over. I could see you in something like this with a lace shrug repurposed from your original dress.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't want to start over, maybe you could rework the gown like
this or this?
Clearly, I'm pushing for a v-neck. You need SOME breathing room. But I am not familiar with the "rules" associated with your religion. And you said you can't alter the neckline?! I just *hate* to see you stuck in something you don't love. And something that hides your lovely new figure! Good luck! xo.
@nikki, WHAT is a temple gown?!
ReplyDeleteI'm a heathen so I dunno, but I get the feeling ULTRA Orthodox means there's no way a sexy dress is going to work. I thinks its great that you don't mind having your religion such a huge part of your wedding when its not a huge part of your life but this doesn't give you an excuse for flouting the rules-especially if you are letting your parents pay for it. Would super killer shoes, ridiculously overpriced lacy black underwear and some jewelry that could double as weaponry help? At times I do regret my dress didn't make me feel sexy (handmade by mom, lovely but didn't do a thing for my figure) and it makes me a little sad but then I remeber the look on my husband's face when he saw me and I really don't think that my T&A were even on his mind.
ReplyDeleteThe problem definitely looks like the sleeves.Tighten those bitches up, make them a little longer! I'm a huge fan of 3/4-length sleeves.
ReplyDeleteAlso, what if your underlay was not white, at least on some of it (...the sleeves)- can you do that? From your self-description, I'm thinking you could love this lace if it had black or hot pink under it.
Is the skirt part too prarie girl, too? Again, tighten that bitch up! Looks like you might have some fabulous curves to show off...
@Anon 8:23 - Mormon weddings aren't typical weddings. You and your partner are "sealed" in the temple for eternity (this is the ceremony + vows part of your wedding day). The temple requires an UBER modest dress - like, no elbows or ankles showing. And then, the bride changes into another dress (usually cuter and a bit less uptight) for the reception.
ReplyDeletelearn from two redheads, i say: 1) like molly r. in pretty in pink, tailor the hell out of that mother, and 2) like florence welch at the oscars, embrace the look and dirty it up with hair and stance.
ReplyDeletei haven't even read it, but yes, you can, absolutely tell your mom to shove it. and i like my mom, and commas, too, much.
ReplyDeleteditch the dress.
A lot of the reworking-of-the-dress suggestions above are not physically possible. You can't just change the underlay or the fabric of the bodice without taking the entire thing apart and creating a whole new dress. I mean, there's some magic seamstresses can do, and then there's magic that only witches can do. Many of you are asking for witch magic.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's that bad on Say Yes to the Dress. I think they just showcase the women who think the only way they'll have a nice dress is if they spend a boat load of money (or the women who like to make scenes). I've seen people go in there with $2,000 budgets, which isn't /that/ extravagant :S
ReplyDeleteTell your mom he truth about the dress, see what she says. Since you've been okay about everything so far I'm sure she'll understand. Offer to pay her back for that part, or something to that effect. Don't be afraid to talk to her!
And if things can't change with the dress I don't think anyone would really judge you if you change into a different one at the reception either. And if they do, oh well, just have fun and ignore everyone. You'll probably be too happy to care about anything like that :3
The wing-y sleeves are adding too much bulk innit, like the ladies said above if they were tighter and 3/4 length the silhouette would be better. So you could do that, and change for the reception.
ReplyDeleteBut if you are able to ditch it and can afford to buy your own dress as a replacement doooooo ittttt. I mean, when was the last time you let your mother tell you what to wear? Yeah.
Leave your mom out of it and entirely and approach the designer with some of your concerns. Tell her how much you love the opulence of the fabric and the colour scheme and the whole thing, but you're just not feeling like your bold-lipped, skinny-panted self in this. See what she can do to change the dress before scrapping it entirely, and maybe draw from some of those mormon blogs, along with pictures of what you feel are pretty wedding and civilian clothes for inspiration and so she (he?) has something concrete to work with.
ReplyDeleteI must confess I purchased my dress at Kleinfeld's and it is definitely possible to get things there for $2k. Because I spent some time there, I can tell (like 99% sure, though not 100%) the picture Laura Ingalls "drowning in lace" Wilder sent was taken there. All of this is just to say I think Anonymous @ 7:35am is correct -- unless money is no object, it doesn't like completely ditching the original dress is a realistic option.
ReplyDeleteI agree tightening up those sleeves will do a world of difference ... As will kickass shoes, jewelry, makeup and attitude.
@amy oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
ReplyDeleteYOU GUYS WE NEED TO FIND HER A NEW DRESS.
The lace is the problem. Unfortunately I don't think there's much to be done about that. If there is, DO IT. If not, I think you've gotta tighten the sleeves, and rock it. Awesome hair and accessories will help loads. And DUDE, prohibition is all about the rad accessories. Find some gorgeous pearl strands, gothic cameos, or whitby jet.
ReplyDeletewait what? Your mom picked out your dress?
ReplyDeleteOh man... I'm just gunna say it, that lace is really, really horrible. BUT I bet it wasn't cheap.
ReplyDeleteHowever, it looks to me like the entire part of the dress that comes above the structure of the bodice could be cut off, leaving you with a plain but tolerable strapless lace dress (and yeah, I'm a seamstress myself, so assuming the boned bodice I think is under there actually is, it'll work). If you wanted to make it even better, I would try to do something else with that corset closure in the back. Something about the placement of the laces and the material of the laces themselves makes it look so mumsy - a strip of black leather instead, maybe?
Over which I would wear the jacket ESB posted today and some kind of fabulous gothy necklace arrangement that maybe you already have. And then, if you still want, buy yourself another dress for the reception. Generally, I'm against them, but in this situation I think it's acceptable.
From a bride who just had a wedding that sounds a lot like yours, "We initially wanted something really small... it's gotten a bit out of hand.We are an easygoing couple, so it hasn't been a huge source of contention. Plus, my folks are footing the bill, so we are very thankful and willing to follow their lead." Ditch the big wedding and do your own small thing if you can afford it. We wanted a small intimate wedding and opted for the big one, because of family and all that pomp and circumstance is alluring in the moment. But, I really regretted not having those special moments with just close friends and family and our rehearsal dinner seemed more like what I wanted than the wedding.
ReplyDeleteWork with what you've got! I think it looks pretty awesome from the back. Tighter sleeves, a plunging neckline, you're good to go.
ReplyDeleteIf you do decide to get a new dress, I'd suggest strapless with a cardigan or jacket.
the dress fabric looks stunning.
ReplyDeleteall you need to do is make those sleeves tight around the arms. i think doing just that would add an aura of sexiness w/out breaking any rules....then just get a much more fun dress for the reception.
team lace.
i'm all about lauren's Florence Welch suggestion with the black jacket.
ReplyDeleteHMMM. but how is that actually HELPFUL? *googling lookalikes*
Why is the front of the dress such a big fat secret?????
ReplyDeleteI mean, it's only us and who are we going to show it to??? Is is a religious thing or somethin'?
All of these suggestions may not work with just seeing the top half of the back, you know?
Tighten the sleeves; dye the dress (!) then wear it for your reception dinner. Then you'll have the option to buy a new dress!
ReplyDeleteHow about doing some minor alterations and then sending it along to someone like Rachel Rose to do some hand painting on the dress? Color is a good way to show some personality? yeah?
ReplyDeleteIt looks like the dress was already bought at Kleinfelds (I went there too and recognize the fitting rooms). I'm guessing its not financially feasible to scrap the dress altogether. So - what about lengthening the sleeves to at least 3/4 length (if not full length) making them much tighter, and possibly sheer instead of lace? Could you change the neckline to a boat neck or a bit of a collar for the grace kelly married in monaco vibe? I honestly think the batwing sleeve you have going on is simply just not that flattering on anyone.
ReplyDeleteGet rid of the sleeves or tighten them. And the weird lacing up the back HAS TO GO.
ReplyDelete@Ms. Bunny - I was looking for more of a fairy godmother kind of magic. That shit is real.
ReplyDeleteAre the sleeves loose because of the weight loss? (Congratulations on that, btw.) It seems like losing fifty pounds is going to throw the fit off on anything.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it's a shame you're hiding the tattoos. I think tattooed brides tend to look awesome in even the most traditional dresses because the tattoos give the whole thing edge.
I totally want to dress our girl in something like this but it's like $$$$$9k and only available in a size 2. But it's killer, prohibition glam, and still manages to be modest. Sigh.
@Fine Persecution tattoos are a big nono for Jews. But THANK YOU for that dress. At least we're heading in the right direction.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of wearing whatever dress you want and then making it more modest for the ceremony with a pretty bolero, blazer, or otherwise.
ReplyDeleteBut if you need a modest look for the whoooole wedding, then how about something like this bride had? It's pretty, simple but not boring, and she looks beautiful whilst maintaining maximum modesty. Ask her where she got the dress? I wish I could be more help!
Is it a bad thing that I don't HATE the dress?
ReplyDeleteI do think that tightening the sleeves and changing the lace-up to a button-up will really it take it up to a classier level. I just picture this as a hot fit-and-flare with tight elbow-length sleeves.
I had to cover my tattoos as well and I had THE hardest time finding a dress that was "modest" and also fit my personality.
ooooo, ooooooo, oooooo! this dress would hopefully cover back tats, plus covers your shoulders, but is sexy at the same time. found it here.
ReplyDeleteI think that you can work with what you've got, but you need to talk to the designer/alterations lady. Make those sleeves shorter. What if they are a little flutter cap sleeve? You have a killer waistline in this dress already, what about a black ribbon sash? Can you tell us what the neckline looks like - is there any possibility of lowering it even an inch? Lace can be cut away and shaped, too (I am a costume designer). I would also ditch the back lacing as that IS giving you the Prairie look. Can you switch to buttons? Other suggestions: killer coloured shoes, red lippy & nails, change for reception.
ReplyDeletePhew! From a modest-ceremony-dress-to-crazy-party-dress bride.
Not sure why that last link didn't work...it's a Reem Acra dress: http://www.reemacra.com/Collections/Bridal/71e63ca4-d16e-4750-9d90-6c47dc4123aa#2
ReplyDelete@esb occurred to me there might be a religious prohibition against the tattoos, but I didn't look it up. And usually I take my research seriously.
ReplyDeleteHow about this Gatsby-esque number for $320 (bust 40")
ReplyDeleteor
this Titanic Era beaut for $750? (bust 40")
both could be paired with more modest slips if need be?
The parameters we need to be working with.
ReplyDeleteJust a completely different thought and forgive me if this is out of the question for you, but - why are you have an orthodox religious wedding if you are secular? To please other people?
ReplyDeleteThis is the part of the question that bothers me the most. If the dress is an expression of a ceremony that is not a part of who you are, and you don't like the dress at all, maybe it's a clue to the fact that you want a secular ceremony and no limitations to what kind of dress you could wear.
I couldn't have a religious ceremony being secular myself, regardless of what people around me might want/believe.
Style-wise, I'd show the tats - they're a part of you. But if you HAVE to be modest, that Temperley dress is gorgeous.
make those sleeves do this
ReplyDeleteAnon at 2:27, my SO and I are both rather secular but grew up in conservative Orthodox Christian households. We plan to get married in an Orthodox church b/c our parents would be disappointed if we didn't. It's not just /our/ day, it's a day to share with family. It doesn't bother us either way, so why not make 4 great, loving and generous people happy? It's not who we are, but it's who we came from.
ReplyDeleteBrb, searching for dresses again.
Would it be too crazy to suggest that the searcher wears the dress, or one that she really loves, despite it being inappropriate but cover up with some rad leather jacket instead? Like this? A friend of mine did something similar for her wedding, only she wore this super long collarless tailcoat over a simple strapless gown. It was really pretty and badass, and I'm trying to find something similar.
Hi friends! And thanks to ESB for listening to me panic!
ReplyDeleteI am the OP -- and those of you saying I can't scrap the dress are correct, it's custom and cost more money than I can afford to pay back. Kleinfeld was actually the best of all the bridal shops we went to, and their modifications/modesty specialist is a total peach, unlike the girls at Vera! Ugh!
ANYWAY! You guys are totally right: the only feasible thing to do is tighten the bottom. I want it to come in around the hips like a fit and flare, which was the original shape, but somehow turned into an A-line due to alterations to the corset. I think that will make it feel slinkier...the sleeves are kind of cool in a capelet way (LOVE CAPES), but do need to be shorter. A small flutter sleeve?
I know lace in general is a total eye roller, but I swear this lace is actually super, super interesting and glam and strange. I think the lighting in the photo is horrible, but trust me, I wouldn't have chosen the fabric if it wasn't totally odd and crazy and wonderful. The lacing on the corset is just what they use for fittings -- there is a pretty nice ribbon with the dress being saved for the day of.
And I'm going to go with you guys on the accessories -- my ears are stretched pretty big and I ordered MASSIVE fake diamond plugs, and will be rocking a red lip and deep red nails. The hair is going to be finger waves, swept over one shoulder, and hopefully a smokey eye or a vargas-type swipe of black liner will help me counteract the prairie feel?
I wish I could give you a full picture but if my fiance saw (he blogs for a living, it'd definitely get back to him somehow) he'd be heartbroken!
And if you're wondering why we're having a religious wedding, it's because I'm pretty close with my family and it just isn't worth fighting over. Plenty of families like mine would have disowned me over half the things I've done or not done, but mine has been really supportive. Wearing a modest dress and doing the religious song and dance for one night won't kill me! Plus, I know all my city friends will get a huge kick out of all the traditions...
PS. I would have DIED to wear Jenny Packham, but just couldn't find anything of hers in a sample size I could even squeeze into, and ordering something I couldn't try on first was totally out of the question! Even my custom dress was based off the body of a different dress I had worn prior to buying...
ReplyDelete- Laura Ingalls "Help Me" Wilder
Nicole Miller has a neckline that might almost work, it seems to have little potential for cleavage.
ReplyDeleteYou know anything from Leanimal will make you feel way sexy while not giving your grandmother a fit.
And for another take on a 70s style there's something about this that could maybe be amazing with the right styling (and boob hiding vintage camisole beneath-or even a high boat neck)? You don't have too much time but the great thing about going through a reliable customer designer is they can hike up the neckline or add some sleeves for not too much money.
OH! And the neck is a kinda cute bateau neckline that is low enough to show off my collarbones, at least.
ReplyDelete- OP
@finepersecution @eastsidebride I totally tried to convince my fam to go with the Temperly 20's dress, but it apparently wasn't "BRIDAL" enough! BS! It's amazing.
ReplyDelete- OP
Can I just say I <3 you Ms Wilder? Must share photos later on! I know how you feel with the family thing, so I give you major respect points. You sounds like an awesome person with a great family, and your wedding will be awesome no matter what.
ReplyDeleteAlso, team lace! Woohoo!
well, I was going to say 'ok, ok, I get it, let's find a new dress ... but nothing will be better than the Temperley sent by Fine Persecution (which, btw, I want for myself for lord knows what occasion).' but then I saw the OP's responses.
ReplyDeletein any event, hope everything works out!
if you find yourself second guessing (again) I suggest you take a peek at Morgane Le Fay's dresses. Try the Soho store location. the dresses are magical.
ReplyDeleteCould a jacket not be the fix we are all praying for? that way you can fix or ditch the sleeves and even part of the back, and possibly make the out fit more mod then mud shack...
ReplyDeleteI am such a fan of @Fine Persecution's Temperley suggestion. The second I read your parameters, that was the first thing that popped into my head.
ReplyDeleteThis one isn't white, but it's a nice neutral and a friend of mine tried to wear it for her wedding and wasn't busty enough.
This one is lovely (and previously seen on ESB's Pinterest).
This one may or may not work - the structures is a bit... weird. But with the right curves, it may totally work.
This one is totally amazing. For serious.
This website really, really kind of sucks, but there are a couple of gowns that offer some back coverage and aren't too bad.
It may be worth having a simple design made and rock a bitchin cover-up and accessories.
Hope that helps? maybe?
OP, I bet when your next alterations are done, it'll be perfect. It sounds like your fitting spooked you because a lot of what you loved got lost in the nip-and-tucks (weight flux will totally do that to a garment). If, by the end of your final fitting with your salon, you don't love what you've got... go rogue. Take your dress to a tailor who will really listen and tell them you want to shut it down.
ReplyDelete(Religious ceremony to appease a great family? Totally get that. Not Orthodox, but Christian, I'm somewhere between Christian and Pagan, hunny's an Odinist. We're having a Christian ceremony for moms and pops, cause they're wonderful. Just don't forget while you're making other people feel good that you ought to be feeling awesome too.)
Tighten up the sleeves.
ReplyDeleteStick to your idea of smokey eyes, and red lips and nails.
Go and find a lovely statement necklace.
You'll be gorgeous!
And I see you about the religious ceremony and pleasing parents. Our wedding will be religious because he and I feel it that way. But there are other things that we are doing because of our families. And once I made peace with that, and have seen how happy everyone is I am just enjoying it until the day arrives (and much more from that day on, I hope!).
Yes statement necklace, shorter sleeves, strong lip and gorgeous hair. And then maybe one other little bit of colour - a belt? Something pinned on your hip? A huge cocktail ring?
ReplyDelete@Laura Ingalls "Help Me" Wilder. Did you see this? Team lace. xo.
ReplyDelete@nicole GAAAAAH her dress was pretty amazeballs.
ReplyDeleteAnyone considered adding an exposed zipper (gold or silver) in place of the tied up back?
ReplyDeleteAnd the Florence link is genius.